Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls

"Richard Shockey" <> Fri, 30 September 2011 01:20 UTC

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From: Richard Shockey <>
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Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 21:23:04 -0400
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Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Requiring ICE for RTC calls
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On Sep 29, 2011, at 7:21 PM, Richard Shockey wrote:

> RS> And at the rate this discussion is going it is reasonable to assume
> it might be 10 years before RTCWEB might be able to reach consensus. But
> what it's worth the end of POTS/PSTN is under active discussion. If for no
> other reason than the  backplanes of the 5E's and DMS 500's are literally
> cracking at a increasing pace. Remember 3G mobile networks still use TDM
> Switches. Bernard's point is well taken RTCWEB shouldn't worry about
> interconnection some gateway or border element will normalize that problem
> in some way shape or form. 

But it's not "POTS" that's really the point - it's the "PSTN".  From the
perspective of this group, the "PSTN" is everything reachable through SIP
service providers: every cell/mobile phone, DSL/Cablemodem MTA, PRI trunk,
SIP Enterprise trunk, POTS landline, etc.  There are more of those right now
than there are devices on the Internet.[1]  And way more of those than
number of users and Web Browsers on the Internet.[2]

Ok but that is a distinction that is causing lots of problems in identifying
the real issue. The PSTN as you put it, is essentially a national and
internationally regulated business model of mandated interconnection for
realtime communications that uses E.164 addressing. It's a policy construct.
It's a set of national specific rules, regulations, emergency services and
cost recovery models. 

POTS, as I would prefer it to be defined, is the technical underpinning of
everything in the PSTN reachable through SIP service providers etc and
that's what we are ultimately talking about.   And yes you are right there
are more POTS end points out there than devices on the Internet, until we
get rid of POTS and fold them into the "greater good" of IP and that process
is progressing very well as far as I can tell. 

Confusing the two is going to cause everyone a lot of grief. 


[1] Based on several sources which claim approx 5 Billion mobile phones, 1.2
Billion POTS lines, and hundreds of millions of MTAs, and untold number of
PRI and SIP trunks; which I'm guesstimating totals about 7 Billion.
Compared to approx 5 Billion current devices on the Internet, according to (though they include things like printers and cameras
in their counts)

[2] Based on ~2 Billion users, from and