[saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: RFCs vs Standards
John Mattsson <john.mattsson@ericsson.com> Fri, 13 December 2024 15:47 UTC
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From: John Mattsson <john.mattsson@ericsson.com>
To: Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net>, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>, "Salz, Rich" <rsalz@akamai.com>, Eliot Lear <lear@lear.ch>, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
Thread-Topic: [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: RFCs vs Standards
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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2024 15:47:35 +0000
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CC: "rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org" <rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org>, IETF SAAG <saag@ietf.org>
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Subject: [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: RFCs vs Standards
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Brian E Carpenter wrote: >So, we really need to pick up draft-thomson-gendispatch-no-expiry. The longer we let this issue drift, the more often we'll have this discussion. +1 Martin Thomson wrote: >The archives of no-draft-expiry@ietf.org tell a pretty grim tale of how this institution is incapable of implementing the most trivial change. There are a lot of people who have mastered using the CIA simple sabotage field manual https://www.cia.gov/static/5c875f3ec660e092cf893f60b4a288df/SimpleSabotage.pdf (11) General Interference with Organizations and Production (a) Organizations and Conferences (1) Insist on doing everything through "channels." Never permit short-cuts to be taken in order to expedite decisions. (2) Make "speeches." Talk as frequently as possible and at great length. Illustrate your "points" by long anecdotes and accounts of personal experiences. Never hesitate to make a few appropriate "patriotic" comments, (3) When possible, refer all matters to committees, for "further study and consideration." Attempt to make the committees as large as possible - never less than five. (4) Bring up irrelevant issues as frequently as possible. (5) Haggle over precise wordings of communications, minutes, resolutions. (6) Refer back to matters decided upon at the last meeting and attempt to re-open the question of the advisability of that decision, (7) Advocate "caution." Be "reasonable" and urge your fellow-conferees to be "reasonable" and avoid haste which might result in embarrassments or difficulties later on. (8) Be worried about the propriety of any decision - raise the question of whether such action as is contemplated lies within the jurisdiction of the group or whether it might conflict with the policy of some higher echelon. (12) General Devices for Lowering Morale and Creating Confusion (a) Give lengthy and incomprehensible explanations when questioned. (c) Act stupid. (d) Be as irritable and quarrelsome as possible without getting yourself into trouble.
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: RFCs vs Standards John Mattsson
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: RFCs vs Standards Randy Bush
- [saag] FW: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Salz, Rich
- [saag] Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft… Simon Josefsson
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: RFCs vs Standards Carsten Bormann
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: RFCs vs Standards Randy Bush
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Salz, Rich
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Simon Josefsson
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: RFCs vs Standards Carsten Bormann
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Salz, Rich
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: Re: Re: RFCs vs Standa… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: Re: Re: RFCs vs Standa… Eric Rescorla
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Tero Kivinen
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: Re: Re: RFCs vs Standa… Tero Kivinen
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Damien Miller
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: RFCs vs St… touch@strayalpha.com
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Tero Kivinen
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Paul Wouters
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: Re: Re: RFCs vs Standa… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Simon Josefsson
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Michael Richardson
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Salz, Rich
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Stephen Farrell
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Peter Gutmann
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Michael Richardson
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Peter Gutmann
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Salz, Rich
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Michael Richardson
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Watson Ladd
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Paul Wouters
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Randy Bush
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Michael Jones
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Randy Bush
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Eric Rescorla
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Stephen Farrell
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Eric Rescorla
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Stephen Farrell
- [saag] RFCs vs Standards Michael Richardson
- [saag] Re: RFCs vs Standards Stephen Farrell
- [saag] Re: RFCs vs Standards John Mattsson
- [saag] Re: RFCs vs Standards Carsten Bormann
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: RFCs vs Standards Salz, Rich
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] RFCs vs Standards Carsten Bormann
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] RFCs vs Standards Eliot Lear
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] RFCs vs Standards Salz, Rich
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] RFCs vs Standards Tim Bray
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] RFCs vs Standards StJohns, Michael
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] RFCs vs Standards Salz, Rich
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: RFCs vs Standards Brian E Carpenter
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: RFCs vs Standards Salz, Rich
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: RFCs vs Standards Alan DeKok
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: RFCs vs Standards Simon Josefsson
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: RFCs vs Standards S Moonesamy
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: RFCs vs Standards Martin Thomson
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] RFCs vs Standards Michael Richardson
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] RFCs vs Standards Eric Rescorla
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] RFCs vs Standards Eliot Lear
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] RFCs vs Standards Carsten Bormann
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] RFCs vs Standards Eric Rescorla
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] RFCs vs Standards Carsten Bormann
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] RFCs vs Standards Salz, Rich
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] RFCs vs Standards Behcet Sarikaya
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: RFCs vs Standards Brian E Carpenter
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: RFCs vs Standards Watson Ladd
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] RFCs vs Standards Eric Rescorla
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: RFCs vs Standards Joel Halpern
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: RFCs vs Standards Eric Rescorla
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: Re: RFCs vs Standards Joel Halpern
- [saag] Re: [rfc-i] Re: RFCs vs Standards Brian E Carpenter
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Peter Gutmann
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Eliot Lear
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Peter Gutmann
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Eliot Lear
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Simon Josefsson
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Eliot Lear
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Paul Wouters
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Simon Josefsson
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Paul Wouters
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Alan DeKok
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… D. J. Bernstein
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Salz, Rich
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Paul Wouters
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… D. J. Bernstein
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Paul Wouters
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… D. J. Bernstein
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Watson Ladd
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Paul Wouters
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… D. J. Bernstein
- [saag] Side-comment: SSH issues (was: New Version… Peter Gutmann
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Paul Wouters
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Damien Miller
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Eliot Lear
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Paul Wouters
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Eliot Lear
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Eric Rescorla
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Eliot Lear
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Eric Rescorla
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Eliot Lear
- [saag] Re: New Version Notification for draft-rsa… Watson Ladd