Re: [Drip] Fwd: ADSB
Alexandre PETRESCU <alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr> Tue, 11 July 2023 12:25 UTC
Return-Path: <alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr>
X-Original-To: tm-rid@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tm-rid@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBA80C151087 for <tm-rid@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 11 Jul 2023 05:25:44 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.196
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.196 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_08=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q-MJpA-s6lT5 for <tm-rid@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 11 Jul 2023 05:25:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AABE3C14CE29 for <tm-rid@ietf.org>; Tue, 11 Jul 2023 05:25:38 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id 36BCPa2T015372 for <tm-rid@ietf.org>; Tue, 11 Jul 2023 14:25:36 +0200
Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 32B7C204DFB for <tm-rid@ietf.org>; Tue, 11 Jul 2023 14:25:36 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from muguet2-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr (muguet2-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.13]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF778204D71 for <tm-rid@ietf.org>; Tue, 11 Jul 2023 14:25:35 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from [10.8.32.70] (is156570.intra.cea.fr [10.8.32.70]) by muguet2-sys.intra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id 36BCPZfP018893 for <tm-rid@ietf.org>; Tue, 11 Jul 2023 14:25:35 +0200
Message-ID: <465d898a-5fad-a404-1be0-f21d4753910a@cea.fr>
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2023 14:25:35 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.13.0
Content-Language: fr
From: Alexandre PETRESCU <alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr>
To: "tm-rid@ietf.org" <tm-rid@ietf.org>
References: <6dfe8ea4-e803-5a70-c8eb-08eb3c1d4c4c@gmail.com> <2dd5fa11-d586-43e4-bd09-828c6aa77a0f@cea.fr>
Organization: CEA
In-Reply-To: <2dd5fa11-d586-43e4-bd09-828c6aa77a0f@cea.fr>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg="sha-256"; boundary="------------ms040208040900020700010704"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tm-rid/9OgYK86choj0DfTkpPo0XHKXHEk>
Subject: Re: [Drip] Fwd: ADSB
X-BeenThere: tm-rid@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: Drone Remote Identification Protocol <tm-rid.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tm-rid>, <mailto:tm-rid-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tm-rid/>
List-Post: <mailto:tm-rid@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tm-rid-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tm-rid>, <mailto:tm-rid-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2023 12:25:45 -0000
this is what flightradar calls 'Airport Ground Vehicle' https://www.flightradar24.com/VEDLYS/3116995d (they say 0ft, i.e. 0 meter, altitude, but that is wrong too because the altitude there is certainly not zero). -- Alexandre Petrescu alexandre.petrescu@cea.fr, tél 0169089223 Le 11/07/2023 à 14:15, Alexandre PETRESCU a écrit : > > (sorry, Cc'ing the list as in my first email I just wrote to Med) > > > > -------- Message transféré -------- > Sujet : Re: [Drip] ADSB > Date : Tue, 11 Jul 2023 14:12:55 +0200 > De : Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> > Pour : mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > > > > Hi, > > ADSB for drones is this on flightradar? > > https://www.flightradar24.com/EOSCUAV/3116cefd > > The arch draft says "For numerous technical reasons, ADS-B itself is > not suitable for low-flying small UAS." ? The drone(?) in the figure > is at approx. 500meter altitude, that I think it is very low. > > Also, the arch draft says "The ADS-B is the de jure technology used in > manned aviation for sharing location information, from the aircraft to > ground " - but I think it is also used for other equipment at airport > that is not aircraft. It might be used for cars (kind of, but surely > not flying) or trucks at airport for collision avoidance, I think. > > > > Alex > > Le 15/09/2020 à 07:48, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com a écrit : >> >> Hi Stu, all, >> >> I was referring to your second point. We need to have a record on >> these matters in the arch draft. >> >> The text shared by Stephan (thanks) is a good start. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Med >> >> *De :*Tm-rid [mailto:tm-rid-bounces@ietf.org] *De la part de* Card, Stu >> *Envoyé :* lundi 14 septembre 2020 16:27 >> *À :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> >> *Cc :* tm-rid@ietf.org >> *Objet :* Re: [Drip] ADSB >> >> A pointer to the freely available earlier draft of what became ASTM >> F3411-19 was added to -reqs; is that the outcome to which you refer? >> >> Or do we want something more about how the regulators et al have >> ruled out ADSB as a RID mechanism for low altitude small UAS? >> >> On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 7:07 AM <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote: >> >> Hi Stu, >> >> I wonder whether the outcome of this thread was recorded in the >> arch draft. >> >> Please share with the WG the current status of this action point. >> >> Thank you. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Med >> >> *De :*Tm-rid [mailto:tm-rid-bounces@ietf.org] *De la part de* >> Card, Stu >> *Envoyé :* mercredi 5 août 2020 15:20 >> *À :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> >> *Cc :* tm-rid@ietf.org >> *Objet :* Re: [Drip] ADSB >> >> Will do. >> >> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 5:13 AM <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote: >> >> Hi Stu, >> >> I remember that Andrei raised in the past a question about >> the use of ADB-S.. I suspect that others may make a similar >> comment in the future. >> Having some text in draft-ietf-drip-arch reflecting the main >> arguments shared in this thread (by Shuai, Bob, Stephan, you) >> will be useful. >> >> Can you please consider adding such text to the draft? >> >> Thank you. >> >> Cheers, >> Med >> >> > -----Message d'origine----- >> > De : Tm-rid [mailto:tm-rid-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de >> Stuart W. >> > Card >> > Envoyé : mardi 4 août 2020 19:12 >> > À : tm-rid@ietf.org >> > Objet : Re: [Drip] ADSB >> > >> > The proposed manifest and other DRIP authentication related >> structures >> > are all independent of transport, but designed to work with >> the most >> > constraining transport thus specified by regulators and/or >> other SDOs, >> > that being ASTM F3411 Broadcast RID over Bluetooth 4. >> > >> > So, for Broadcast RID, they would be encapsulated in ASTM F3411 >> > messages over Bluetooth 4, Bluetooth 5 or WiFi Neighbor >> Awareness >> > Networking (without IP). >> > >> > For Network RID, they could be carried in any IP based >> transport, >> > HTTPS/TCP/IP initially (although, for Network RID, some of >> them are >> > superfluous). >> > >> > On 8/4/2020 11:27 AM, Alexandre Petrescu wrote: >> > > Thanks for the clarification. >> > > >> > > Le 04/08/2020 à 17:17, Stuart W. Card a écrit : >> > >> I just want to respond to one line that I think comes from >> > confusion: >> > >> >> > >>> But if we have reluctance about the use of ADS-B, and >> thus of IP, >> > >>> and we recommend Bluetooth-without-IP to identify drones >> > >> >> > >> We aren't recommending Bluetooth-without-IP, we are >> _supporting_ >> > it, >> > > >> > > But, the security manifest that I have seen on slides >> during the >> > > presentation of the DRIP WG meeting - is something below >> IP, right? >> > >> > >> > -- >> > ----------------------------------------- >> > Stuart W. Card, PhD, Principal Engineer >> > AX Enterprize, LLC www.axenterprize.com >> <http://www.axenterprize.com> >> > 4947 Commercial Drive, Yorkville NY 13495 >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ >> >> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des >> informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc >> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si >> vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler >> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. >> Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, >> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete >> altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. >> >> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or >> privileged information that may be protected by law; >> they should not be distributed, used or copied without >> authorisation. >> If you have received this email in error, please notify the >> sender and delete this message and its attachments. >> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages >> that have been modified, changed or falsified. >> Thank you. >> >> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ >> >> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc >> >> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler >> >> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, >> >> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. >> >> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; >> >> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. >> >> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. >> >> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. >> >> Thank you. >> >> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ >> >> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc >> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler >> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, >> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. >> >> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; >> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. >> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. >> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. >> Thank you. >>
- [Tm-rid] Review of draft-drip-arch-02 w.r.t. RFC6… Amelia Andersdotter
- Re: [Tm-rid] Review of draft-drip-arch-02 w.r.t. … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Tm-rid] Review of draft-drip-arch-02 w.r.t. … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Tm-rid] Review of draft-drip-arch-02 w.r.t. … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Tm-rid] Review of draft-drip-arch-02 w.r.t. … Amelia Andersdotter
- Re: [Tm-rid] Review of draft-drip-arch-02 w.r.t. … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Tm-rid] Review of draft-drip-arch-02 w.r.t. … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Tm-rid] Review of draft-drip-arch-02 w.r.t. … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Tm-rid] Review of draft-drip-arch-02 w.r.t. … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Tm-rid] Review of draft-drip-arch-02 w.r.t. … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Tm-rid] Review of draft-drip-arch-02 w.r.t. … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Tm-rid] Review of draft-drip-arch-02 w.r.t. … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Tm-rid] Review of draft-drip-arch-02 w.r.t. … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Tm-rid] Review of draft-drip-arch-02 w.r.t. … Stuart W. Card
- Re: [Tm-rid] Review of draft-drip-arch-02 w.r.t. … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Tm-rid] Review of draft-drip-arch-02 w.r.t. … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Tm-rid] Review of draft-drip-arch-02 w.r.t. … Da Silva, Saulo
- Re: [Tm-rid] Review of draft-drip-arch-02 w.r.t. … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Tm-rid] Review of draft-drip-arch-02 w.r.t. … Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Tm-rid] Review of draft-drip-arch-02 w.r.t. … Robert Moskowitz
- [Drip] ADSB (was: Review of draft-drip-arch-02 w.… Stuart W. Card
- Re: [Drip] ADSB (was: Review of draft-drip-arch-0… shuaiizhao(Shuai Zhao)
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Drip] ADSB(Internet mail) shuaiizhao(Shuai Zhao)
- Re: [Drip] ADSB(Internet mail) Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Drip] ADSB(Internet mail) shuaiizhao(Shuai Zhao)
- Re: [Drip] ADSB(Internet mail) Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Drip] ADSB(Internet mail) Jarvenpaa, Mika (Nokia - FI/Espoo)
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Stephan Wenger
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Stuart W. Card
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Stuart W. Card
- Re: [Drip] ADSB mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Card, Stu
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Card, Stu
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Card, Stu
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Card, Stu
- [Drip] ASTM on UDP/IP - an (im)possibility Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Drip] ASTM on UDP/IP - an (im)possibility Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Drip] ASTM on UDP/IP - an (im)possibility Card, Stu
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Drip] ADSB mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Card, Stu
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Stephan Wenger
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Drip] ADSB mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [Drip] [Tm-rid] Review of draft-drip-arch-02 … Stuart W. Card
- [Drip] Fwd: ADSB Alexandre PETRESCU
- Re: [Drip] Fwd: ADSB Alexandre PETRESCU
- Re: [Drip] Fwd: ADSB Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Drip] Fwd: ADSB Eric Vyncke (evyncke)
- Re: [Drip] Fwd: ADSB Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Drip] Fwd: ADSB Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Drip] Fwd: ADSB Stu Card
- Re: [Drip] Fwd: ADSB Stu Card
- Re: [Drip] Fwd: ADSB Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Drip] Fwd: ADSB Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Eric Vyncke (evyncke)
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Stu Card
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Stu Card
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Alexandre Petrescu
- [Drip] how you can help (was: ADSB) Stu Card
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Drip] how you can help (was: ADSB) Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Drip] how you can help (was: ADSB) Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Drip] how you can help (was: ADSB) Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Drip] how you can help (was: ADSB) Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Drip] how you can help (was: ADSB) Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Drip] how you can help (was: ADSB) Stu Card
- Re: [Drip] how you can help (was: ADSB) Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Drip] how you can help (was: ADSB) Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Drip] ADSB Stephan Wenger
- Re: [Drip] ADSB - draft-moskowitz-drip-crowd-sour… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Drip] ADSB - draft-moskowitz-drip-crowd-sour… Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Drip] ADSB - draft-moskowitz-drip-crowd-sour… Stephan Wenger
- Re: [Drip] ADSB - draft-moskowitz-drip-crowd-sour… Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Drip] ADSB - draft-moskowitz-drip-crowd-sour… Stephan Wenger
- Re: [Drip] ADSB - draft-moskowitz-drip-crowd-sour… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Drip] ADSB - draft-moskowitz-drip-crowd-sour… Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Drip] how you can help (was: ADSB) Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [Drip] how you can help (was: ADSB) Stu Card
- Re: [Drip] how you can help (was: ADSB) Robert Moskowitz