Re: [Drip] Fwd: ADSB

[Robert Moskowitz <[e-mail]>]

And such ground use has little impact on carrier capacity of towers away 
from the ground location of sender.

An airport can have specific receivers for such units and feed the data 
into the whole ATC network without eating up bandwidth for those 
in-coming big birds.

On 7/11/23 08:32, Eric Vyncke (evyncke) wrote:
>
> From my very little private pilot experience:
>
> - ADS-B is indeed used on things that are not aircrafts (like 
> emergency or inspection vehicles on an airport)
>
> - ADB-B "out" information from aircraft needs to be received 
> (obviously) by an ADS-B "in" receiver and the frequency is 'line of 
> sight', so to be seen they need to high enough from a ground station 
> to get clear of the obstacles (trees, hills, houses, ...)
>
> -éric (no hat at all!)
>
> *From: *Tm-rid <[e-mail]> on behalf of Alexandre 
> PETRESCU <[e-mail]>
> *Organisation: *CEA
> *Date: *Tuesday, 11 July 2023 at 14:26
> *To: *"[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
> *Subject: *Re: [Drip] Fwd: ADSB
>
> this is what flightradar calls 'Airport Ground Vehicle'
>
> https://www.flightradar24.com/VEDLYS/3116995d
>
> (they say 0ft, i.e. 0 meter, altitude, but that is wrong too because 
> the altitude there is certainly not zero).
>
> --
> Alexandre Petrescu
> [e-mail], tél [phone]
>
> Le 11/07/2023 à 14:15, Alexandre PETRESCU a écrit :
>
>     (sorry, Cc'ing the list as in my first email I just wrote to Med)
>
>
>
>     -------- Message transféré --------
>
>     *Sujet : *
>
>     	
>
>     Re: [Drip] ADSB
>
>     *Date : *
>
>     	
>
>     Tue, 11 Jul 2023 14:12:55 +0200
>
>     *De : *
>
>     	
>
>     Alexandre Petrescu <[e-mail]>
>     <mailto:[e-mail]>
>
>     *Pour : *
>
>     	
>
>     [e-mail]
>
>     Hi,
>
>     ADSB for drones is this on flightradar?
>
>     https://www.flightradar24.com/EOSCUAV/3116cefd
>
>     The arch draft says "For numerous technical reasons, ADS-B itself
>     is not suitable for low-flying small UAS." ? The drone(?) in the
>     figure is at approx. 500meter altitude, that I think it is very low.
>
>     Also, the arch draft says "The ADS-B is the de jure technology
>     used in manned aviation for sharing location information, from the
>     aircraft to ground " - but I think it is also used for other
>     equipment at airport that is not aircraft.  It might be used for
>     cars (kind of, but surely not flying) or trucks at airport for
>     collision avoidance, I think.
>
>
>     Alex
>
>     Le 15/09/2020 à 07:48, [e-mail] a écrit :
>
>         Hi Stu, all,
>
>         I was referring to your second point. We need to have a record
>         on these matters in the arch draft.
>
>         The text shared by Stephan (thanks) is a good start.
>
>         Cheers,
>
>         Med
>
>         *De :*Tm-rid [mailto:[e-mail]
>         <mailto:[e-mail]>] *De la part de* Card, Stu
>         *Envoyé :* lundi 14 septembre 2020 16:27
>         *À :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN <[e-mail]>
>         <mailto:[e-mail]>
>         *Cc :* [e-mail]
>         *Objet :* Re: [Drip] ADSB
>
>         A pointer to the freely available earlier draft of what became
>         ASTM F3411-19 was added to -reqs; is that the outcome to which
>         you refer?
>
>         Or do we want something more about how the regulators et al
>         have ruled out ADSB as a RID mechanism for low altitude small UAS?
>
>         On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 7:07 AM <[e-mail]>
>         wrote:
>
>             Hi Stu,
>
>             I wonder whether the outcome of this thread was recorded
>             in the arch draft.
>
>             Please share with the WG the current status of this action
>             point.
>
>             Thank you.
>
>             Cheers,
>
>             Med
>
>             *De :*Tm-rid [mailto:[e-mail]] *De la part
>             de* Card, Stu
>             *Envoyé :* mercredi 5 août 2020 15:20
>             *À :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN <[e-mail]>
>             *Cc :* [e-mail]
>             *Objet :* Re: [Drip] ADSB
>
>             Will do.
>
>             On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 5:13 AM
>             <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>                 Hi Stu,
>
>                 I remember that Andrei raised in the past a question
>                 about the use of ADB-S.. I suspect that others may
>                 make a similar comment in the future.
>                 Having some text in draft-ietf-drip-arch reflecting
>                 the main arguments shared in this thread (by Shuai,
>                 Bob, Stephan, you) will be useful.
>
>                 Can you please consider adding such text to the draft?
>
>                 Thank you.
>
>                 Cheers,
>                 Med
>
>                 > -----Message d'origine-----
>                 > De : Tm-rid [mailto:[e-mail]] De la
>                 part de Stuart W.
>                 > Card
>                 > Envoyé : mardi 4 août 2020 19:12
>                 > À : [e-mail]
>                 > Objet : Re: [Drip] ADSB
>                 >
>                 > The proposed manifest and other DRIP authentication
>                 related structures
>                 > are all independent of transport, but designed to
>                 work with the most
>                 > constraining transport thus specified by regulators
>                 and/or other SDOs,
>                 > that being ASTM F3411 Broadcast RID over Bluetooth 4.
>                 >
>                 > So, for Broadcast RID, they would be encapsulated in
>                 ASTM F3411
>                 > messages over Bluetooth 4, Bluetooth 5 or WiFi
>                 Neighbor Awareness
>                 > Networking (without IP).
>                 >
>                 > For Network RID, they could be carried in any IP
>                 based transport,
>                 > HTTPS/TCP/IP initially (although, for Network RID,
>                 some of them are
>                 > superfluous).
>                 >
>                 > On 8/4/2020 11:27 AM, Alexandre Petrescu wrote:
>                 > > Thanks for the clarification.
>                 > >
>                 > > Le 04/08/2020 à 17:17, Stuart W. Card a écrit :
>                 > >> I just want to respond to one line that I think
>                 comes from
>                 > confusion:
>                 > >>
>                 > >>> But if we have reluctance about the use of
>                 ADS-B, and thus of IP,
>                 > >>> and we recommend Bluetooth-without-IP to
>                 identify drones
>                 > >>
>                 > >> We aren't recommending Bluetooth-without-IP, we
>                 are _supporting_
>                 > it,
>                 > >
>                 > > But, the security manifest that I have seen on
>                 slides during the
>                 > > presentation of the DRIP WG meeting - is something
>                 below IP, right?
>                 >
>                 >
>                 > --
>                 > -----------------------------------------
>                 > Stuart W. Card, PhD, Principal Engineer
>                 > AX Enterprize, LLC www.axenterprize.com
>                 <http://www.axenterprize.com>
>                 > 4947 Commercial Drive, Yorkville NY 13495
>
>
>                 _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
>
>                 Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des
>                 informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne
>                 doivent donc
>                 pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans
>                 autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur,
>                 veuillez le signaler
>                 a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces
>                 jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles
>                 d'alteration,
>                 Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a
>                 ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
>
>                 This message and its attachments may contain
>                 confidential or privileged information that may be
>                 protected by law;
>                 they should not be distributed, used or copied without
>                 authorisation.
>                 If you have received this email in error, please
>                 notify the sender and delete this message and its
>                 attachments.
>                 As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for
>                 messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.
>                 Thank you.
>
>             _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
>
>               
>
>             Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
>
>             pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
>
>             a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
>
>             Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
>
>               
>
>             This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law;
>
>             they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
>
>             If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.
>
>             As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.
>
>             Thank you.
>
>         _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
>
>         Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
>
>         pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
>
>         a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
>
>         Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
>
>         This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law;
>
>         they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
>
>         If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.
>
>         As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.
>
>         Thank you.
>
>
>
>