Re: [Drip] ADSB (was: Review of draft-drip-arch-02 w.r.t. RFC6973, RFC8280 and other)(Internet mail)

"shuaiizhao(Shuai Zhao)" <shuaiizhao@tencent.com> Thu, 30 July 2020 09:49 UTC

Return-Path: <shuaiizhao@tencent.com>
X-Original-To: tm-rid@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tm-rid@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C78353A1041 for <tm-rid@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 02:49:12 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.098
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=tencent.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wUXCR_Zltjg1 for <tm-rid@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 02:49:10 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail1.tencent.com (mail1.tencent.com [203.205.248.43]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4ACB63A103F for <tm-rid@ietf.org>; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 02:49:08 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from EX-SZ020.tencent.com (unknown [10.28.6.40]) by mail1.tencent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD9FD5A229 for <tm-rid@ietf.org>; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 17:49:06 +0800 (CST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=tencent.com; s=s202002; t=1596102546; bh=5luEPspFggvJifqh8XfjkLOq0cSVPUs7tsBVBAcqWPY=; h=From:To:CC:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To; b=AC0YCqRsB9zkKsjFPWbdaOYU5HIg9vgJlwPso33lujvStMgdSawNUfwk5YFrYmZoG gxyhUlEJEUe6oCBGIw8/MoaTxXkunYt0W5+wWuMvcL9mEds2GNPSzh6pmvMSH0umWi 6j6ZB9tIpK1O0wEDER9OKfA718UT6g7WaNE5/L0I=
Received: from EX-US02.tencent.com (10.93.1.208) by EX-SZ020.tencent.com (10.28.6.40) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1847.3; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 17:49:06 +0800
Received: from EX-US01.tencent.com (10.93.1.207) by EX-US02.tencent.com (10.93.1.208) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1847.3; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 17:49:04 +0800
Received: from EX-US01.tencent.com ([fe80::6caa:cd90:e113:277e]) by EX-US01.tencent.com ([fe80::6caa:cd90:e113:277e%4]) with mapi id 15.01.1847.007; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 17:49:04 +0800
From: "shuaiizhao(Shuai Zhao)" <shuaiizhao@tencent.com>
To: "Stuart W. Card" <stu.card@axenterprize.com>, "tm-rid@ietf.org" <tm-rid@ietf.org>
CC: "shuaiizhao(Shuai Zhao)" <shuaiizhao@tencent.com>
Thread-Topic: [Drip] ADSB (was: Review of draft-drip-arch-02 w.r.t. RFC6973, RFC8280 and other)(Internet mail)
Thread-Index: AQHWZhuoThOern4FiUq1YT8dMdK54qke5aIA
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 09:49:04 +0000
Message-ID: <A80AB482-557C-44C7-A99A-B494852D59AB@tencent.com>
References: <1bebf5b1-1fa5-6902-5bb7-9ec3582e6d9a@andersdotter.cc> <2990FBF0-FCB0-49CE-8F4B-BF5111CE5D57@tzi.org> <01a21161-aa8d-6d4b-b384-3129fe6d799b@gmail.com> <973223fd-0119-376d-12cd-21559a14ce87@labs.htt-consult.com> <b88975b0-ecfd-3091-4314-304c36d51e8f@gmail.com> <3c632ce9-115d-11f5-ee33-bfabd4973522@labs.htt-consult.com> <f5dc0567-c9a1-a26f-b240-aead0d85c11f@gmail.com> <c9cc2ff4-c24f-f575-150b-8b978a4c2ac5@labs.htt-consult.com> <7ddd9a2f-23ba-dd82-8cfb-1d2974969e67@gmail.com> <d8cf3a43-910a-db2f-4408-184b52446c97@labs.htt-consult.com> <a288966d-d22a-d0fa-c544-ae2db7d1533e@gmail.com> <e60a44a7-a659-1937-19fb-d468c4329bb2@axenterprize.com>
In-Reply-To: <e60a44a7-a659-1937-19fb-d468c4329bb2@axenterprize.com>
Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.37.20051002
x-originating-ip: [9.19.161.113]
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_A80AB482557C44C7A99AB494852D59ABtencentcom_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tm-rid/qCjwBF10cL1tdoR1ahQ8z-GZiKc>
Subject: Re: [Drip] ADSB (was: Review of draft-drip-arch-02 w.r.t. RFC6973, RFC8280 and other)(Internet mail)
X-BeenThere: tm-rid@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Drone Remote Identification Protocol <tm-rid.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tm-rid>, <mailto:tm-rid-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tm-rid/>
List-Post: <mailto:tm-rid@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tm-rid-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tm-rid>, <mailto:tm-rid-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 09:49:13 -0000

Just to echo Stu on the ADSB, AFAIK, ADSB will  not be feasible for most of the drones mostly due to SwaP, commercial drones might be exception.


Best,
Shuai Zhao


From: Tm-rid <tm-rid-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "Stuart W. Card" <stu.card@axenterprize.com>
Date: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 19:46
To: "tm-rid@ietf.org" <tm-rid@ietf.org>
Subject: [Drip] ADSB (was: Review of draft-drip-arch-02 w.r.t. RFC6973, RFC8280 and other)(Internet mail)

Sorry for the slow reply.

ADS-B is gradually being mandated for essentially all manned aircraft.

ADSB-In and ADSB-Out are mandated for airliners: -In gives their pilots
some Situational Awareness (SA) of other aircraft; -Out gives other
pilots SA of the airliners.

"ADSB-Out" is mandated even for small general aviation aircraft: it does
not directly benefit the pilots of those aircraft; but by providing SA
to others, it indirectly benefits all.

ADSB is _not_ going to be deployed on large numbers of small UAS as it
would overwhelm the limited bandwidth available at those lower radio
frequencies (which propagate long ranges). In fact, it is expected to be
explicitly prohibited in the US per the FAA NPRM; I suspect most of the
rest of the world will do likewise.

ADSB is also altogether insecure.

On 7/9/2020 3:02 AM, Alexandre Petrescu wrote:
...
They call it "ADS-B Receivers" (Automatic Dependent Surveillance -
Broadcast).

I wouuld like to ask if there is a packet dump available showing such
presence data form planes?  Maybe wireshark already supports it, maybe
it even dissects it...

--
-----------------------------------------
Stuart W. Card, PhD, Principal Engineer
AX Enterprize, LLC  www.axenterprize.com
4947 Commercial Drive, Yorkville NY 13495