Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] Proposal for new BEHAVEcharter
" Rémi Denis-Courmont" <remi.denis-courmont@nokia.com> Mon, 20 October 2008 11:26 UTC
Return-Path: <v4v6interim-bounces@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: v4v6interim-archive@ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietfarch-v4v6interim-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 221AB3A69B5; Mon, 20 Oct 2008 04:26:09 -0700 (PDT)
X-Original-To: v4v6interim@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: v4v6interim@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AE8C3A6838; Mon, 20 Oct 2008 04:26:08 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.299
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H+RiUiXwOiik; Mon, 20 Oct 2008 04:26:07 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mgw-mx09.nokia.com (smtp.nokia.com [192.100.105.134]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E81B3A68C3; Mon, 20 Oct 2008 04:26:07 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from vaebh105.NOE.Nokia.com (vaebh105.europe.nokia.com [10.160.244.31]) by mgw-mx09.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.6/Switch-3.2.6) with ESMTP id m9KBQXtb013095; Mon, 20 Oct 2008 06:27:14 -0500
Received: from vaebh102.NOE.Nokia.com ([10.160.244.23]) by vaebh105.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 20 Oct 2008 14:26:38 +0300
Received: from vaebh101.NOE.Nokia.com ([10.160.244.22]) by vaebh102.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 20 Oct 2008 14:26:34 +0300
Received: from esdhcp041131.research.nokia.com ([172.21.41.131]) by vaebh101.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 20 Oct 2008 14:26:33 +0300
From: Rémi Denis-Courmont <remi.denis-courmont@nokia.com>
Organization: Maemo Software - Nokia Devices R&D
To: ext marcelo bagnulo braun <marcelo@it.uc3m.es>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 14:26:33 +0300
User-Agent: KMail/1.9.10
References: <48F8539D.90608@ericsson.com> <200810201358.29295.remi.denis-courmont@nokia.com> <48FC663E.1070902@it.uc3m.es>
In-Reply-To: <48FC663E.1070902@it.uc3m.es>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Disposition: inline
Message-Id: <200810201426.33336.remi.denis-courmont@nokia.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Oct 2008 11:26:33.0727 (UTC) FILETIME=[B4DF68F0:01C932A6]
X-Nokia-AV: Clean
Cc: v4v6interim@ietf.org, 46translation@employees.org, 'Behave WG' <behave@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] Proposal for new BEHAVEcharter
X-BeenThere: v4v6interim@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Discussion of coexistence topics for the 01-Oct-2008 v4-v6 coexistence interim meeting <v4v6interim.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v4v6interim>, <mailto:v4v6interim-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/pipermail/v4v6interim>
List-Post: <mailto:v4v6interim@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:v4v6interim-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v4v6interim>, <mailto:v4v6interim-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sender: v4v6interim-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: v4v6interim-bounces@ietf.org
On Monday 20 October 2008 14:06:38 ext marcelo bagnulo braun, you wrote: > Rémi Denis-Courmont escribió: > > On Monday 20 October 2008 13:37:05 ext Iljitsch van Beijnum, you wrote: > >> Interestingly, I did a small survey about whether people _expect_ > >> there to be NAT66 in the future and the majority said "yes". > >> > >> On the one hand we can do nothing and if all goes well there will be > >> no IPv6 NAT so we're all happy because not doing anything made the > >> right thing happen. (Although I've used a NAT66 implementation myself > >> some years back, so there is at least one out there.) > >> > >> But if we do nothing, we run the risk that someone will do a quick > >> search and replace on their NAT44 code and create a port overloading > >> NAT66. The port overloading is 90% of the harmful stuff that NAT boxes > >> do. > >> > >> What we could do is come up with a stateless, transport-agnostic 1- > >> to-1 NAT66 spec so we at least avoid the port overloading and nothing > >> much breaks except referrals. > > > > I share your analysis that, _assuming_ we have NAT66, it should be > > transport-agnostic. IPv6 has a large enough address space, and we are > > painfully aware of the problems of transport-dependent NAT(44). > > > > However, when I look at the reasons for deploying NAT: > > 1/ address space shortage > > 2/ inbound firewalling > > 3/ topology hiding > > 4/ prefix delegation "bypass" > > > > (1) is a non-issue for IPv6. (2) is solved with stateful firewalling and > > does not require NAT. 1:1 NAT fails to solve (3) as it does hide the > > subnetting scheme, but fails to hide individual hosts. This leaves only > > (4). Did I miss anything? > > I think one main reason would be provider independence (ie. no need to > renumber) for small sites that cannot afford to have thier own PI > address block allocated That's prefix delegation/routing bypass. -- Rémi Denis-Courmont Maemo Software, Nokia Devices R&D _______________________________________________ v4v6interim mailing list v4v6interim@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v4v6interim
- [v4v6interim] [Fwd: [BEHAVE] Proposal for new BEH… Magnus Westerlund
- [v4v6interim] Proposal for new BEHAVE charter Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [v4v6interim] Proposal for new BEHAVE charter Margaret Wasserman
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] Proposal for new BEHAV… Dan Wing
- Re: [v4v6interim] [46translation] [BEHAVE] Propos… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] Propos… Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: [v4v6interim] [46translation] [BEHAVE] Propos… Rémi Denis-Courmont
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] Propos… marcelo bagnulo braun
- Re: [v4v6interim] [46translation] [BEHAVE] Propos… Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] Propos… Rémi Denis-Courmont
- Re: [v4v6interim] [46translation] [BEHAVE] Propos… Margaret Wasserman
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] Proposal for new BEHAV… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] Propos… marcelo bagnulo braun
- Re: [v4v6interim] [46translation] [BEHAVE] Propos… Margaret Wasserman
- Re: [v4v6interim] [46translation] [BEHAVE] Propos… TJ
- [v4v6interim] NAT66 for PI [Re: [46translation] [… Brian E Carpenter
- [v4v6interim] "My" [Re: [46translation] [BEHAVE] … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v4v6interim] [46translation] [BEHAVE] Propos… Fred Baker
- Re: [v4v6interim] "My" [Re: [46translation] [BEHA… Marc Blanchet
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] "My" [… Fred Baker
- Re: [v4v6interim] [46translation] [BEHAVE] Propos… Dave Thaler
- Re: [v4v6interim] [46translation] "My" [Re: [BEHA… Dave Thaler
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] "My" [… Dave Thaler
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] Propos… Rémi Després
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] "My" [… Rémi Després
- Re: [v4v6interim] [46translation] [BEHAVE] Propos… Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: [v4v6interim] [46translation] [BEHAVE] Propos… Fred Baker
- Re: [v4v6interim] [46translation] [BEHAVE] Propos… Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: [v4v6interim] [46translation] [BEHAVE] "My" [… Ed Jankiewicz
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] NAT66 for PI [Re: [46t… Jari Arkko
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] "My" [… Mark Townsley
- Re: [v4v6interim] [46translation] [BEHAVE] "My" [… Mark Townsley
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] Propos… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [v4v6interim] [46translation] [BEHAVE] Propos… Mark Townsley
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] Propos… Mark Townsley
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] Propos… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] Propos… Mark Townsley
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] Propos… Margaret Wasserman
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] Propos… Cullen Jennings
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] Propos… Mark Townsley
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] Propos… Cullen Jennings
- Re: [v4v6interim] [46translation] [BEHAVE] Propos… Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] Propos… Mark Townsley
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] Propos… Alain Durand
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] Propos… Dan Wing
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] Propos… Margaret Wasserman
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] Propos… Margaret Wasserman
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] Propos… Dan Wing
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] Propos… Mark Townsley
- Re: [v4v6interim] [46translation] [BEHAVE] Propos… Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] Propos… Fred Baker
- Re: [v4v6interim] [46translation] [BEHAVE] Propos… Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] Propos… Rémi Denis-Courmont
- Re: [v4v6interim] [46translation] [BEHAVE] Propos… Rémi Denis-Courmont
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] Propos… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] Propos… Mark Townsley
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] Propos… Mark Townsley
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] Propos… Rémi Denis-Courmont
- Re: [v4v6interim] [46translation] [BEHAVE] Propos… Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: [v4v6interim] [46translation] [BEHAVE] Propos… Rémi Denis-Courmont
- Re: [v4v6interim] [46translation] [BEHAVE] Propos… Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] Propos… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] Propos… Iljitsch van Beijnum
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] Propos… Pekka Savola
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] Propos… Bonness, Olaf
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] Propos… Cullen Jennings
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] [46translation] Propos… Fred Baker
- Re: [v4v6interim] [46translation] [BEHAVE] Propos… Fred Baker
- Re: [v4v6interim] [BEHAVE] NAT66 for PI [Re: [46t… Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: [v4v6interim] [46translation] [BEHAVE] NAT66 … Fred Baker
- Re: [v4v6interim] Doesn't HIP solve this problem? Brian E Carpenter