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Re: [dmarc-ietf] THIS IS ABUSE (it might be)

Alessandro Vesely <vesely@tana.it> Fri, 07 April 2023 18:43 UTC

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Original-Subject: Re: [dmarc-ietf] THIS IS ABUSE (it might be)
Author: Alessandro Vesely <vesely@tana.it>
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Subject: Re: [dmarc-ietf] THIS IS ABUSE (it might be)
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It is going to be problematic to kick off someone who impersonates different 
users.  What do you do, block IP numbers?

We keep on saying that mailing list have worked this way for decades.  Sure. 
And email in general has been working for decades before the need to use 
authentication arose.  So we can bet that people using MLs is highly selected 
and well behaved... but is that true?  Wouldn't a jester be able to completely 
disrupt our work by heavily repeating impersonations to the point that we'll be 
forced to restrict to Github tools to discuss our drafts?  I wouldn't bet...

Some time ago I proposed a p=mlm-validate[*] telling receivers to reject on 
failure only if they are a mailing list or similar forwarder.  I thought that 
would cause minimal disruption since such kind of posts most of the times reach 
destination in one hop —akin to transactional stuff— and a poster who gets a 
bounce can quickly retry.  Such kind of tool would eliminate impersonation chances.

An obvious truth is that we cannot publish a successful protocol if we 
ourselves see no reason to make any use of it.

Best
Ale


[*] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmarc/QL8fi1YHtFz0Z1qxcJyGmpR_Q-g


On Thu 06/Apr/2023 22:39:55 +0200 Scott Kitterman wrote:
> This is not a significant problem in my experience.  To the extent this is a problem I think it's primarily a list owner problem, not an Internet protocol problem.  Not kidding that if I ran this list I'd probably kick you off the list for awhile to give you a chance to ponder the error of your ways.
> 
> Don't do this.
> 
> Scott K
> 
> On April 6, 2023 8:53:46 PM UTC, someone wrote:
>>I hope Alex won't get offended by this innocent DMARC test.
>>
>>Are we sure that it is all right for mailing lists to allow spoofs and impersonation?  I don't think Comcast has p=reject to safeguard Alex's contribution to this list, but what if he can't stand being impersonated?  What else is he supposed to do besides setting p=reject?
>>
>>THIS LIST TAKES ALL OF THE BAD OF DMARC, NONE OF THE GOOD.
>>
>>Best
>>Ale
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>dmarc mailing list
>>dmarc@ietf.org
>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmarc
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dmarc mailing list
> dmarc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmarc

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