Re: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity
Tony Rutkowski <rutkowski.tony@gmail.com> Sat, 10 April 2021 18:21 UTC
Return-Path: <rutkowski.tony@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC91A3A0C87 for <gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 11:21:39 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.1
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gxYZdeNQvHNr for <gendispatch@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 11:21:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-qt1-x830.google.com (mail-qt1-x830.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::830]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C5BD83A0C86 for <gendispatch@ietf.org>; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 11:21:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-qt1-x830.google.com with SMTP id j7so6794133qtx.5 for <gendispatch@ietf.org>; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 11:21:36 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=4sSbyFMXADLnFoaCwttsh+SVl+peNmbCwb22b8z85nQ=; b=Do5CgsWknFWd2LDk6uJ1nJvh51vfFoFbr5RacnQCqlkGnO2Xxszk4LakqRXaua/+WA Zndfag9oK7B2rIni/xjGBAq3Mp28vRp0ic2owrund8tyJY0Acoa/ID/q9SWyTfuDBEwD akr4zzWwHZOB7eOXQU7hQV7MgRKav0syi9gbhMR8Xvizfa+PUP5Q9Qvtk28jvVf428g3 OILFyvVcs4/wO3I/YReRultvgRhD9vZu0YW9huJmGDPYeZLwul6hJ1tTtSixigo1v5JQ nEyGca/nwWC9aVxVQrSpTBRZYVMRUEsq/flICSK/qAt9CsuxZf3oEOSt9A2HfYstNnaK MErQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=4sSbyFMXADLnFoaCwttsh+SVl+peNmbCwb22b8z85nQ=; b=r+qYBfQS/9hMCnqat3k0Qb46zx7AizZuOKLHcn/t4XGR6JJ20ypzTn6JUJfP3XU0dO koBLQR4r9zIoGfo6roSKhftvM0nYwvnT0YFAWcjmTW7Q0DESr4x7y8lt+Xvj4MEWywgK 5T9UC6KeJdLiKsWUez8V6Ni9/vzj2dI0ZDXd8gTn2w/M2huaOKSxUOFDK2a1nEg8YPs4 U1Dc7TYBkg3F3Xm6Phfa9QN4VNwjrRi+lr+EeBM4jiMKcTmB3mwB2SvokX+pK4KrZ0Zq mrOKwtLgiMJyLELxctxGNmRPNp8uMRUZ8i/1sHLrxBihThaStT6kzjvv/bx0arV9t1BX XcmA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533YxHFiL7MpXtfUwqhnNJhaa2Y06QbvD4zBYrRkpssNBEtRV2NG YZ7V0wFDRrVXhTVnSw2mquf8l+fnGF3ONA==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzHrLwnXu76bGvUsVoowjdcNDsIuXf5mn8TCWcAnBWbSBy20ess2rA1fvLUE1bxwuQc9bnZFQ==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:14d4:: with SMTP id u20mr18657887qtx.185.1618078894450; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 11:21:34 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.1.249] (pool-70-106-222-98.clppva.fios.verizon.net. [70.106.222.98]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e2sm4258759qto.50.2021.04.10.11.21.33 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 10 Apr 2021 11:21:33 -0700 (PDT)
To: Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com>
Cc: "gendispatch@ietf.org" <gendispatch@ietf.org>
References: <CAChr6SxZY6j+n1ps5C7R3ySePNpRt_9rdE5sB37FRmp6DBBVJA@mail.gmail.com> <3D340A9D-1A39-4ADA-BA27-E4E912CA6D03@akamai.com> <8d9a6f04-4d6d-288a-e901-aa17c42a5886@gmail.com> <CABcZeBM4e3vrNHA1+==n=KamRLwPUSWMgvQsTtVhA_uBaHaBug@mail.gmail.com> <65aec12d-715d-9447-65ae-70b14bbab717@cs.tcd.ie> <CAChr6SxYWW5CpY5t=ZD+xg+wH=YH5_nu+L_8dpP7_p+dED-ggA@mail.gmail.com> <2dfc430a-be5c-507d-1f63-9df7f71c9588@cs.tcd.ie> <eedbc43b-82ea-2f95-d3db-69f601093a8d@gmail.com> <E0D59DE7-0858-4A9D-A17C-C6D4050BFF92@mnot.net> <32ab9a0e-d105-6861-7b46-c438bb5547bc@gmail.com> <20210409221135.GD9612@localhost>
From: Tony Rutkowski <rutkowski.tony@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <adeb4273-62ec-421c-ddf6-d4c5e0648434@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2021 14:21:33 -0400
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.9.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <20210409221135.GD9612@localhost>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gendispatch/TFgd9XWzjJxnJGU49bN_qxeErts>
Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity
X-BeenThere: gendispatch@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: General Area Dispatch <gendispatch.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/gendispatch>, <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/gendispatch/>
List-Post: <mailto:gendispatch@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gendispatch>, <mailto:gendispatch-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2021 18:21:40 -0000
Hi Nico, There is actually effective solace in many if not most industry standards bodies today where those with a common interest and collaborative style do well - frequently embellished with good wine and food. Courtesy of Google Patents, however, we can all see that the world of standards bodies is surrounded by the vast "dark matter" of proprietary standards threaded through vendor products and services. Only some of the IPR makes it into industry bodies to advance market strategies. All standards bodies tend to persist in the delusion of being in control of some perceived turf. Over the past 45 years, I've been in most of them - mapping and analyzing them, and pushing occasional work here and there. They all have their own proclivities. Some like the ISO or ATIS, I still disdain and eschew for multiple detractions - not the least of which is selling off someone else's IPR as standards. Hopefully, Karl Malamud will prevail in his EUCOJ litigation. The IETF in the 80s and early 90s had hope, but became a cult with religious views - propped up by entities who earn massive revenues from what was once called Silicon Snake Oil. It was always amazing how pushing bits around was turned into a religion and community, only to ultimately burp out alt-universe wonders like QAnon. There is life on the outside. Enuf said.... cheers, tony On 09-Apr-21 6:11 PM, Nico Williams wrote: > Corporate and military organizations can do it, if they get lucky, > because all it takes is someone at the top with the right vision, > skills, and will power. We're not such an organization. We have egos > in the way.
- [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Salz, Rich
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Kyle Rose
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Rob Sayre
- [Gendispatch] Let's restore and evolve our plenar… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Andrew Campling
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Andrew Campling
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Gendispatch] Let's restore and evolve our pl… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Dan Harkins
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Let's restore and evolve our pl… Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Let's restore and evolve our pl… Livingood, Jason
- Re: [Gendispatch] Let's restore and evolve our pl… Livingood, Jason
- Re: [Gendispatch] Let's restore and evolve our pl… Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Let's restore and evolve our pl… Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] Let's restore and evolve our pl… Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Salz, Rich
- Re: [Gendispatch] Let's restore and evolve our pl… Pete Resnick
- Re: [Gendispatch] Let's restore and evolve our pl… Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Jay Daley
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Salz, Rich
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Salz, Rich
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Jay Daley
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Salz, Rich
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org <-- the di… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org <-- the di… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Salz, Rich
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org Nico Williams
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org <-- the di… Pete Resnick
- [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity Tony Rutkowski
- Re: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity Tony Rutkowski
- Re: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org <-- the di… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity Tony Rutkowski
- Re: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org <-- the di… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org <-- the di… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity Mark Nottingham
- Re: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org <-- the di… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org <-- the di… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org <-- the di… Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity Tony Rutkowski
- Re: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity Nico Williams
- Re: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity Jay Daley
- Re: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity Tony Rutkowski
- Re: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity Rob Sayre
- Re: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity Keith Moore
- Re: [Gendispatch] IETF transparency and diversity Andrew Campling