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Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Sun, 04 April 2021 03:32 UTC

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To: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>, gendispatch@ietf.org
References: <CAChr6Sxa6uY+nOzWW=MSXP_ekLaBSCTfjC2YcURi+kX0h2X+Rg@mail.gmail.com> <1CBE5840-3CAE-4EAA-9CF2-E0FFDAAAA6FD@akamai.com> <CAChr6Syhco9Fag_rOwvS1jc+yBHXHQusDDZOu954RRLHCS-=iQ@mail.gmail.com> <CABcZeBMxY9CZ4m=QxGzjtGJqFv_H9bk=cYOs=xA4esQ5ra010g@mail.gmail.com> <bb834f16-fd22-8556-678d-e23b991a41c5@network-heretics.com>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
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Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2021 15:32:45 +1200
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Subject: Re: [Gendispatch] Ending ietf@ietf.org
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On 04-Apr-21 15:09, Keith Moore wrote:
> On 4/3/21 4:03 PM, Eric Rescorla wrote:
> 
>>
>> From my perspective, a lot of the problem is not so much that the list 
>> is general, but that it is largely unmoderated. Long painful 
>> experience shows that communities need tending if they are not to 
>> descend into a toxic mess, and moderation is an important part of that 
>> tending.
> 
> In my opinion, such "moderating" as has been done in recent years by 
> IETF leadership has contributed to making the IETF a considerably more 
> toxic place.   A community in which dissenting views are suppressed, or 
> in which the leadership believes it has the right to squash criticism, 
> cannot credibly claim that it is a consensus-making body.

Keith, I think you need to show your working... since the list archive
is open, we have data.

Certainly there is a case for ensuring that the moderation or sergeant
at arms activity is performed in a way that is accountable to the
community. If there's evidence that moderation has been used inappropriately,
let's discuss it. The list charter (BCP 45  = RFC 3005) says that complaints
can be addressed to the IAB. Has that ever happened?

We certainly haven't seen a PR Action for a long time now. (For anyone
who doesn't know, that's a community process for revoking posting rights
in extreme cases; see BCP 83 = RFC 3683.)

Regards
   Brian

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