IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Idr] community of the day - common header

Gert Doering <gert@space.net> Fri, 09 September 2016 18:25 UTC

Return-Path: <gert@space.net>
X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8423A12B169 for <idr@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 9 Sep 2016 11:25:00 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.108
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.108 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.508] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WfnmVB2wsuFP for <idr@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 9 Sep 2016 11:24:58 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mobil.space.net (mobil.space.net [IPv6:2001:608:2:81::67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B506012B0EC for <idr@ietf.org>; Fri, 9 Sep 2016 11:24:56 -0700 (PDT)
X-Original-To: idr@ietf.org
Received: from mobil.space.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mobil.space.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB30460705 for <idr@ietf.org>; Fri, 9 Sep 2016 20:24:49 +0200 (CEST)
X-SpaceNet-Relay: true
X-SpaceNet-Relay: true
X-SpaceNet-Relay: true
X-SpaceNet-Relay: true
Received: from moebius4.space.net (moebius4.space.net [IPv6:2001:608:2:2::251]) by mobil.space.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DFA76010F; Fri, 9 Sep 2016 20:24:49 +0200 (CEST)
Received: by moebius4.space.net (Postfix, from userid 1007) id 3D3F433AB4; Fri, 9 Sep 2016 20:24:49 +0200 (CEST)
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2016 20:24:49 +0200
From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
To: Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
Message-ID: <20160909182449.GI79185@Space.Net>
References: <20160908231840.GB16775@puck.nether.net> <20160909153317.GC8370@pfrc.org> <8C072797-55A7-4D1A-87E4-67551953EF22@puck.nether.net> <20160909155952.GE8370@pfrc.org> <20160909164640.GE79185@Space.Net> <20160909170513.GE12105@pfrc.org> <20160909171110.GF79185@Space.Net> <CA+b+ERnGj0Whz=pYR81vY41bcn6d_4--xDg4eKhNqXtpqDpGzg@mail.gmail.com> <20160909174943.GH79185@Space.Net> <20160909180841.GA14495@pfrc.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha256"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="AtqGgpzCJ8dUT4ER"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <20160909180841.GA14495@pfrc.org>
X-NCC-RegID: de.space
User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.1 (2016-04-27)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/AEaiHmq_qmwzRVb1ZVQsJH8Dsts>
Cc: idr wg <idr@ietf.org>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Subject: Re: [Idr] community of the day - common header
X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing <idr.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/idr>, <mailto:idr-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/idr/>
List-Post: <mailto:idr@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:idr-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr>, <mailto:idr-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2016 18:25:00 -0000

Hi,

On Fri, Sep 09, 2016 at 02:08:41PM -0400, Jeffrey Haas wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 09, 2016 at 07:49:43PM +0200, Gert Doering wrote:
> > On Fri, Sep 09, 2016 at 07:46:50PM +0200, Robert Raszuk wrote:
> > > If WG agrees on attribute + common header as described in current -03
> > > version of wide community draft with perhaps additional comments to be
> > > incorporated in it - then we are done.
> > 
> > And if the WG does not agree, then -large is blocked?  Or how do I have
> > to read this statement?
> 
> Gert, while this is directed to you, this also applies to any operators
> who've joined the list recently who aren't familiar with IETF process.

Oh, I do very well understand how consensus works, especially *rough*
consensus (as do most other folks that are active in the RIPE community,
like Nick and Sander).  

I was just wondering whether Robert intended to imply anything in the 
sentence above.

[..]
> The IETF works via rough consensus.  That consensus includes "letting go",
> as seen in the tao. The IETF doesn't work through squatting on code point
> and shipping early terrorism.  That leads to crashing the Internet.

"Not being able to agree on anything for 14 years" also leads to 
"crashing the Internet".

The tao is "rough consensus and running code".  We seem to have 3 
interoperable implementations, and all but two voices on the list 
recently have argued in favour of -large.  Which makes a fairly strong
consensus, per RFC7282.

[..]
> Moving to a denser format?  PDUs are the *boring* part of standardization.
> Drama aside, this is converging no worse than any other proposal in IDR.

If 10+ years is the *norm* for geting something done, this is worse than
I assumed.

Gert Doering
        -- NetMaster
-- 
have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?

SpaceNet AG                        Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14          Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann
D-80807 Muenchen                   HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen)
Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444           USt-IdNr.: DE813185279

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email