RE: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF 108
"STARK, BARBARA H" <bs7652@att.com> Thu, 11 June 2020 19:47 UTC
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From: "STARK, BARBARA H" <bs7652@att.com>
To: 'Michael Thomas' <mike@mtcc.com>, "'ietf@ietf.org'" <ietf@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF 108
Thread-Topic: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF 108
Thread-Index: AQHWPfZuvRn57zVqgUCiElQdaHe9YKjQ8q4AgAB92YCAABYxgIAAn7eAgAAHkoCAAARDAIAAa6qAgAARCACAACR9AIAACGCAgAAZPYCAAAU6gIAAAaUAgADD0SCAAE6TgIAAAWcA//++QTA=
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2020 19:47:21 +0000
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References: <159166311543.4506.736406779378278905@ietfa.amsl.com> <CAFgnS4WOjmNOf_MRfms1RD0e15xYP-xcfNiyqS7p5ofYBEQPdw@mail.gmail.com> <d65a8aeffc61b6d069afa87f3c91b10496c4d5b2.camel@lsl.digital> <5FCC8656386268B41681E1DE@PSB> <B4293B17-6F83-4B9E-89BF-C0B1388F346F@cable.comcast.com> <CABmDk8=gxXiQ60hpdCNB6jK0EG_ssAQnzjgJp=c9yXNKabHKeA@mail.gmail.com> <CABmDk8mwVfWZQmBwZ9c4xaoStwv7CeRRceihTR846iq_LYPFFw@mail.gmail.com> <F6BFB099-2526-4EEB-A267-F2A1D0A7DDFB@cooperw.in> <35fb0076-a240-096a-de7f-280d5e7ad1e3@cs.tcd.ie> <2F0FDD2B-03C8-4E76-9149-A2666147C66E@csperkins.org> <27875646-243d-8d03-b588-866b883fea7c@cs.tcd.ie> <8C935847-70C8-439B-8F4C-83DB9A43E4DF@ietf.org> <46159495-3bef-be6d-31f7-1b83737359ad@gmail.com> <B6DFDB6D-7A97-4EE3-8554-6AF005C73EC3@ietf.org> <2a36750841d34cb99695077d60760ceb@att.com> <3949E994-C3BA-4392-BB1A-0D66EDE84065@vigilsec.com> <71021dea-5bf0-ac05-f9d7-cc7396540767@mtcc.com>
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> On 6/11/20 12:07 PM, Russ Housley wrote: > > > >> On Jun 11, 2020, at 2:42 PM, STARK, BARBARA H <bs7652@att.com> > wrote: > >> > >>> If the fee waiver programme were uncapped then would you still regard > that as a bandaid? > >>> Jay > >> I'm going to reply at this point in the thread with some thoughts I haven't > seen expressed yet. > >> Much of the commentary against registration fees has come from or on > behalf of people who struggle to pay the fees. > >> Much of the commentary for registration fees has come from people who > do not struggle to pay the fees. > >> > >> As someone who doesn't struggle to pay the fee (because my employer > finds it a significant savings over what would have been paid), but who > recognizes that others do struggle, what I would have preferred would be: > >> > >> Put a statement on the registration page: > >> > >> IETF needs to raise $515,145 to pay for costs that would normally have > been covered by in-person registration fees. See > <url mauled by email filter> for more > details. We request that those who are able to pay the fees do so. Any who > are not able, please simply check the "waiver request" box. You will then be > able to register for free. If your company would like to help sponsor our > experiment with unlimited waivers (to enable IETF to continue allowing all to > contribute, regardless of situation) , please contact us at <email>. > >> > >> And then have unlimited and automatic waiver. > >> > >> IETF likes to experiment. So we should experiment with a trust model. > Trust that only those who need the waiver will request it, and see what > happens. > >> Barbara > > > > I really like this idea. > > > Not to be a wet blanket but what happens if corpro bean counters find out > that they can game the system for the cost of a checkbox? > > Mike A system as large as the IETF can handle a few who do this. When large numbers do this, the trust model breaks down, and creates a dysfunctional organization/society (because trust breaks down in more than just this area). This is not new. This is all understood and well-studied by economists, psychologists, etc. But there is a real advantage to groups that *can* operate with this level of trust. The org is more efficient and effective. Such organizations are more successful. What needs to be done is to have appropriate mitigations to limit the effects of possible failure and have policies that discourage gaming. To mitigate, it's good to make sure there are sufficient funds in the bank to cover 1 or 2 massive failures of trust. Some policies could be that there is a public list of companies who commit to not gaming the system. The names of people who register with an affiliation or email address domain of one of these companies and requests a fee waiver could be made public. With this, there would be peer pressure and public perception that would discourage gaming. Barbara
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Toerless Eckert
- Re: Registration open for IETF 108 Dan Romascanu
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Jay Daley
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Melinda Shore
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Jay Daley
- Re: Registration open for IETF 108 Ish Sookun
- Re: Registration open for IETF 108 John C Klensin
- Re: Registration open for IETF 108 Livingood, Jason
- RE: Registration open for IETF 108 Adrian Farrel
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Bajpai, Vaibhav
- Re: Registration open for IETF 108 Mary B
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Alissa Cooper
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Livingood, Jason
- Re: Registration open for IETF 108 Mary B
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Registration open for IETF 108 Livingood, Jason
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Registration open for IETF 108 Livingood, Jason
- Re: Registration open for IETF 108 Ish Sookun
- Re: Registration open for IETF 108 Ish Sookun
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Alissa Cooper
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Alissa Cooper
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Alissa Cooper
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Mary B
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Paul Wouters
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … George Michaelson
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Alissa Cooper
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Ole Jacobsen
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Colin Perkins
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Colin Perkins
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … John Levine
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Ole Jacobsen
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Jay Daley
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Jay Daley
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Melinda Shore
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Jay Daley
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Melinda Shore
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Ish Sookun
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Alexa Morris
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Randy Bush
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … John C Klensin
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Jay Daley
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Lars Eggert
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Tim Chown
- RE: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Adrian Farrel
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Jay Daley
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … S Moonesamy
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … tom petch
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Corinne Cath
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … John C Klensin
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Colin Perkins
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Corinne Cath
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Gurshabad Grover
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … tom petch
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Livingood, Jason
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Bob Hinden
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Pete Resnick
- RE: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Lucy Lynch
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Michael Richardson
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Ole Jacobsen
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Russ Housley
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Mary B
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Michael Thomas
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Phillip Hallam-Baker
- RE: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Michael Thomas
- RE: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Mary B
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … John Levine
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Ole Jacobsen
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Michael Thomas
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Michael Thomas
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Michael Thomas
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Michael StJohns
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Jay Daley
- RE: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … John C Klensin
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Toerless Eckert
- Re: Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for I… tom petch
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Jay Daley
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Toerless Eckert
- RE: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … S Moonesamy
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Michael Richardson
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Randy Bush
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Christian Huitema
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Carsten Bormann
- RE: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Adrian Farrel
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … S Moonesamy
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Tim Chown
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … S Moonesamy
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Jay Daley
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … S Moonesamy