Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF 108
John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> Thu, 11 June 2020 11:46 UTC
Return-Path: <john-ietf@jck.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD3E03A03FF; Thu, 11 Jun 2020 04:46:37 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.898
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HGGGokXu9euJ; Thu, 11 Jun 2020 04:46:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from bsa2.jck.com (ns.jck.com [70.88.254.51]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE6C03A03F3; Thu, 11 Jun 2020 04:46:35 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [198.252.137.10] (helo=PSB) by bsa2.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from <john-ietf@jck.com>) id 1jjLfD-0005LZ-M3; Thu, 11 Jun 2020 07:46:31 -0400
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2020 07:46:24 -0400
From: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
To: Corinne Cath <corinnecath@gmail.com>, Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
cc: ietf <ietf@ietf.org>, ietf108planning@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF 108
Message-ID: <46DB233DBEB02D75160A5152@PSB>
In-Reply-To: <CAD499e+MCvF_D0oTHxi9UfgTRgzcPWrb-qaQNFPZxUeeUodHsg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <159166311543.4506.736406779378278905@ietfa.amsl.com> <CAFgnS4WOjmNOf_MRfms1RD0e15xYP-xcfNiyqS7p5ofYBEQPdw@mail.gmail.com> <d65a8aeffc61b6d069afa87f3c91b10496c4d5b2.camel@lsl.digital> <5FCC8656386268B41681E1DE@PSB> <B4293B17-6F83-4B9E-89BF-C0B1388F346F@cable.comcast.com> <CABmDk8=gxXiQ60hpdCNB6jK0EG_ssAQnzjgJp=c9yXNKabHKeA@mail.gmail.com> <CABmDk8mwVfWZQmBwZ9c4xaoStwv7CeRRceihTR846iq_LYPFFw@mail.gmail.c om> <F6BFB099-2526-4EEB-A267-F2A1D0A7DDFB@cooperw.in> <35fb0076-a240-096a-de7f-280d5e7ad1e3@cs.tcd.ie> <2F0FDD2B-03C8-4E76-9149-A2666147C66E@csperkins.org> <27875646-243d-8d03-b588-866b883fea7c@cs.tcd.ie> <8C935847-70C8-439B-8F4C-83DB9A43E4DF@ietf.org> <c1b11160-c50b-9434-6ba8-9ec587a17743@cs.tcd.ie> <CAD499e+MCvF_D0oTHxi9UfgTRgzcPWrb-qaQNFPZxUeeUodHsg@mail.gmail.com>
X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 198.252.137.10
X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: john-ietf@jck.com
X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on bsa2.jck.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/o0hYYDaZ5UgUlYklQS8C3Fk6h-Y>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2020 11:46:38 -0000
Corinne, What you left out is that you, and other students of your generation, are the future of the IETF -- without you and as various of us age out, the IETF does not have a future. Will you come back later if we lock you out now and you move on to other things and become less involved? I certainly don't know; you may not know with any reliability either. Will watching on YouTube a few days or weeks after the meeting be something you would do and would it be equally useful? Certainly I don't know and the LLC doesn't know either. But all of those are at least questions that a community discussion would bring out. Like Stephen, I don't think I have all of the answers or even a firm position on how things should ultimately work out and would appreciate it if people would not assume what outcomes I'm in favor of or opposed to. But I do believe the decisions have enough likely impact on the standards process, the diversity of those who participate, and possibly even the future of the IETF thatI don't believe they should be made without careful community discussion or, if there is really an emergency, what the emergency is. I also believe that our existing rules and procedures require such a discussion and that skipping over it is a Really Big Deal. thanks, john --On Thursday, June 11, 2020 12:44 +0200 Corinne Cath <corinnecath@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > Just wanted to add a quick data points to this conversation: > as a PhD student, 200$ is a fifth of the total research + > travel budget I get from my university per year. > > In comparison to other universities, I am given a royal > research budget. But giving up 1/5 to attend an online IETF > meeting makes a big dent. Doubly-so because I (and I assume > other graduate students) had not planned for such expenses, > given online participation is usually free of cost. If I am > not randomly assigned a waiver, I will probably not be able to > attend. > > Now I am not under any illusion that my personal attendance > (or lack there off) matters much - however, I know my case > (i.e. graduate student on a limited budget) is not unique. And > many others like me will struggle to participate in this > meeting because of the unexpected costs. This is not even > including what the online fee means for some of my colleagues > working in academia or for civil society in the Global South. > > I agree with Stephen that this step might be hard to avoid, > but that it would benefit from robust community debate > beforehand. I also agree with Melinda that this is a real move > away from the openness from which the IETF derives its > legitimacy. And while the recordings will be available to all > post-meeting, this is not a substitute for open attendance. > > Kind regards, > > Corinne
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Toerless Eckert
- Re: Registration open for IETF 108 Dan Romascanu
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Jay Daley
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Melinda Shore
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Jay Daley
- Re: Registration open for IETF 108 Ish Sookun
- Re: Registration open for IETF 108 John C Klensin
- Re: Registration open for IETF 108 Livingood, Jason
- RE: Registration open for IETF 108 Adrian Farrel
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Bajpai, Vaibhav
- Re: Registration open for IETF 108 Mary B
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Alissa Cooper
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Livingood, Jason
- Re: Registration open for IETF 108 Mary B
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Registration open for IETF 108 Livingood, Jason
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Registration open for IETF 108 Livingood, Jason
- Re: Registration open for IETF 108 Ish Sookun
- Re: Registration open for IETF 108 Ish Sookun
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Alissa Cooper
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Alissa Cooper
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Alissa Cooper
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Mary B
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Paul Wouters
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … George Michaelson
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Alissa Cooper
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Ole Jacobsen
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Colin Perkins
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Colin Perkins
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … John Levine
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Ole Jacobsen
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Jay Daley
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Jay Daley
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Melinda Shore
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Jay Daley
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Melinda Shore
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Ish Sookun
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Alexa Morris
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Randy Bush
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … John C Klensin
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Jay Daley
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Lars Eggert
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Tim Chown
- RE: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Adrian Farrel
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Jay Daley
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … S Moonesamy
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … tom petch
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Corinne Cath
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … John C Klensin
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Colin Perkins
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Corinne Cath
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Gurshabad Grover
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … tom petch
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Livingood, Jason
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Bob Hinden
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Pete Resnick
- RE: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Lucy Lynch
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Michael Richardson
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Ole Jacobsen
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Russ Housley
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Mary B
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Michael Thomas
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Phillip Hallam-Baker
- RE: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Michael Thomas
- RE: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Mary B
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … John Levine
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Ole Jacobsen
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Michael Thomas
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Michael Thomas
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Michael Thomas
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Michael StJohns
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Jay Daley
- RE: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … John C Klensin
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Toerless Eckert
- Re: Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for I… tom petch
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Jay Daley
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Toerless Eckert
- RE: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … S Moonesamy
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Michael Richardson
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Randy Bush
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Christian Huitema
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Carsten Bormann
- RE: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Adrian Farrel
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … S Moonesamy
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Tim Chown
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … S Moonesamy
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … Jay Daley
- Re: [Ietf108planning] Registration open for IETF … S Moonesamy