Re: risk zones

Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net> Fri, 06 March 2020 17:27 UTC

Return-Path: <huitema@huitema.net>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C6183A0B43 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Mar 2020 09:27:53 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.899
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1laBZKTk6s2i for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Mar 2020 09:27:50 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mx43-out1.antispamcloud.com (mx43-out1.antispamcloud.com [138.201.61.189]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0EB6F3A0BA7 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Mar 2020 09:27:50 -0800 (PST)
Received: from xse433.mail2web.com ([66.113.197.179] helo=xse.mail2web.com) by mx168.antispamcloud.com with esmtp (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <huitema@huitema.net>) id 1jAGlF-000Cuf-Hh for ietf@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Mar 2020 18:27:47 +0100
Received: from xsmtp22.mail2web.com (unknown [10.100.68.61]) by xse.mail2web.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48YvhJ3Gflz3X8n for <ietf@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Mar 2020 09:27:44 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [10.5.2.16] (helo=xmail06.myhosting.com) by xsmtp22.mail2web.com with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <huitema@huitema.net>) id 1jAGlE-0005VD-Af for ietf@ietf.org; Fri, 06 Mar 2020 09:27:44 -0800
Received: (qmail 27624 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2020 17:27:44 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO [192.168.1.102]) (Authenticated-user:_huitema@huitema.net@[172.58.46.191]) (envelope-sender <huitema@huitema.net>) by xmail06.myhosting.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with ESMTPA for <ietf@ietf.org>; 6 Mar 2020 17:27:43 -0000
To: Rich Kulawiec <rsk@gsp.org>, ietf@ietf.org
References: <158344386661.14598.13307571424986389922@ietfa.amsl.com> <4295F611-DDB6-4BCB-AFF3-B7F313C6C9A6@sobco.com> <19D579B6-E81E-47BE-9881-6DFA3D5173D1@ietf.org> <1866d5b0-4c83-9c9d-4a17-55153024a872@gmail.com> <c94c6ecc-598f-c1c5-f14a-7105031671d0@gmail.com> <CAAuWHC+2zPLUUhhsCfHBowJchjU6fqFtugkmepbN6+MrrcKrRw@mail.gmail.com> <CAMm+Lwj2HHXPUHYv7wKDXwfzvHJsQg9wtoJqnWYZEfdutELRVA@mail.gmail.com> <20200306154532.GA26540@gsp.org>
From: Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>
Autocrypt: addr=huitema@huitema.net; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBFIRX8gBCAC26usy/Ya38IqaLBSu33vKD6hP5Yw390XsWLaAZTeQR64OJEkoOdXpvcOS HWfMIlD5s5+oHfLe8jjmErFAXYJ8yytPj1fD2OdSKAe1TccUBiOXT8wdVxSr5d0alExVv/LO I/vA2aU1TwOkVHKSapD7j8/HZBrqIWRrXUSj2f5n9tY2nJzG9KRzSG0giaJWBfUFiGb4lvsy IaCaIU0YpfkDDk6PtK5YYzuCeF0B+O7N9LhDu/foUUc4MNq4K3EKDPb2FL1Hrv0XHpkXeMRZ olpH8SUFUJbmi+zYRuUgcXgMZRmZFL1tu6z9h6gY4/KPyF9aYot6zG28Qk/BFQRtj7V1ABEB AAG0J0NocmlzdGlhbiBIdWl0ZW1hIDxodWl0ZW1hQGh1aXRlbWEubmV0PokBOQQTAQIAIwUC UhFfyAIbLwcLCQgHAwIBBhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEJNDCbJVyA1yhbYH/1ud6x6m VqGIp0JcZUfSQO8w+TjugqxCyGNn+w/6Qb5O/xENxNQ4HaMQ5uSRK9n8WKKDDRSzwZ4syKKf wbkfj05vgFxrjCynVbm1zs2X2aGXh+PxPL/WHUaxzEP7KjYbLtCUZDRzOOrm+0LMktngT/k3 6+EZoLEM52hwwpIAzJoscyEz7QfqMOZtFm6xQnlvDQeIrHx0KUvwo/vgDLK3SuruG1CSHcR0 D24kEEUa044AIUKBS3b0b8AR7f6mP2NcnLpdsibtpabi9BzqAidcY/EjTaoea46HXALk/eJd 6OLkLE6UQe1PPzQC4jB7rErX2BxnSkHDw50xMgLRcl5/b1a5AQ0EUhFfyAEIAKp7Cp8lqKTV CC9QiAf6QTIjW+lie5J44Ad++0k8gRgANZVWubQuCQ71gxDWLtxYfFkEXjG4TXV/MUtnOliG 5rc2E+ih6Dg61Y5PQakm9OwPIsOx+2R+iSW325ngln2UQrVPgloO83QiUoi7mBJPbcHlxkhZ bd3+EjFxSLIQogt29sTcg2oSh4oljUpz5niTt69IOfZx21kf29NfDE+Iw56gfrxI2ywZbu5o G+d0ZSp0lsovygpk4jK04fDTq0vxjEU5HjPcsXC4CSZdq5E2DrF4nOh1UHkHzeaXdYR2Bn1Y wTePfaHBFlvQzI+Li/Q6AD/uxbTM0vIcsUxrv3MNHCUAEQEAAYkCPgQYAQIACQUCUhFfyAIb LgEpCRCTQwmyVcgNcsBdIAQZAQIABgUCUhFfyAAKCRC22tOSFDh1UOlBB/94RsCJepNvmi/c YiNmMnm0mKb6vjv43OsHkqrrCqJSfo95KHyl5Up4JEp8tiJMyYT2mp4IsirZHxz/5lqkw9Az tcGAF3GlFsj++xTyD07DXlNeddwTKlqPRi/b8sppjtWur6Pm+wnAHp0mQ7GidhxHccFCl65w uT7S/ocb1MjrTgnAMiz+x87d48n1UJ7yIdI41Wpg2XFZiA9xPBiDuuoPwFj14/nK0elV5Dvq 4/HVgfurb4+fd74PV/CC/dmd7hg0ZRlgnB5rFUcFO7ywb7/TvICIIaLWcI42OJDSZjZ/MAzz BeXm263lHh+kFxkh2LxEHnQGHCHGpTYyi4Z3dv03HtkH/1SI8joQMQq00Bv+RdEbJXfEExrT u4gtdZAihwvy97OPA2nCdTAHm/phkzryMeOaOztI4PS8u2Ce5lUB6P/HcGtK/038KdX5MYST Fn8KUDt4o29bkv0CUXwDzS3oTzPNtGdryBkRMc9b+yn9+AdwFEH4auhiTQXPMnl0+G3nhKr7 jvzVFJCRif3OAhEm4vmBNDE3uuaXFQnbK56GJrnqVN+KX5Z3M7X3fA8UcVCGOEHXRP/aubiw Ngawj0V9x+43kUapFp+nF69R53UI65YtJ95ec4PTO/Edvap8h1UbdEOc4+TiYwY1TBuIKltY 1cnrjgAWUh/Ucvr++/KbD9tD6C8=
Subject: Re: risk zones
Message-ID: <137ce613-9060-b0c3-65ab-359010c6b865@huitema.net>
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2020 09:27:42 -0800
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.5.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <20200306154532.GA26540@gsp.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Language: en-US
X-Originating-IP: 66.113.197.179
X-Spampanel-Domain: xsmtpout.mail2web.com
X-Spampanel-Username: 66.113.197.0/24
Authentication-Results: antispamcloud.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=66.113.197.0/24@xsmtpout.mail2web.com
X-Spampanel-Outgoing-Class: unsure
X-Spampanel-Outgoing-Evidence: Combined (0.15)
X-Recommended-Action: accept
X-Filter-ID: Mvzo4OR0dZXEDF/gcnlw0dyF9K2ilaF/JaNUYHaAo6qpSDasLI4SayDByyq9LIhVUZbR67CQ7/vm /hHDJU4RXkTNWdUk1Ol2OGx3IfrIJKywOmJyM1qr8uRnWBrbSAGDAzc5Jb/eaE0k3pqeq35lKbgN zB/4Jkrw1eDLcif59ft3y6otaKFJuFGQU85FCHPtU7Tmz6iKnkQL9gqsxD347235Nhqq+/HvroPq 8GSPg+60/QPNqXybIny9WGhadIo/YxFBjiwvt8YGG8KnqhbQXbyme9ldZJ7uNXfg/GfS8fUvP/L5 rCqHDsKZM+xa1iwJX+gRCHfMVnsAk591zk0uilUI+ZL4xWiN8NS6C+dmX6OEdA4u1aThyWrQ/ou2 +v/lmX4Em37yFgrCB6NHRn1g+f3uncIqYSL3lhh5c81YyJqFoLZMmkWsaurVZfvqROaDnDtHb8z5 dpPkEuJ8Snwqla7jUnW3hy14Yji8fo+4xCnSRo4Rcu5Z37rMuDjCny5fE9ykbJ7I9co1MAEE3ruN Xsm8UJsAPvDcVSKtDCYkioPY5Qx4fJOk03R5fJtf/Dv/dkIzS7m4GUpXCY1Y3j3ilZpnfSx1WjM8 Y221ho/pD3/YTgm/NnC/c8YEQ5zoBxO0qHL/iisWCK93/rNVo9hHGZ0LB0wgaSEnTctJ8n6fllbv 5pWb82qAoDl3ILGSF0vmDvI0DEihOd7XzCAIcFZdY11677oPXF7r5zsW33ZNliqQWXiK63IBlEyx 50xFFL1+5RiuRb51S+Ml43tBCRyTiDzAXPU1UvCyITFs2AML0PrVuSQw6sYIjvWFbnRyrFbXHHAS JNUmoOHSoqgqxfHmWRWcrRhLeB34s3hUb32GO+3MA5UhoefTSu4ks0nvCchd08QV3No+S2msRDep v5w/kkG0v17AmegcpQ0tml/sN9lmMy/o83jVXTcfb9k0nLWblJy7uxV6dw8jzlsaNZe6hynMJcjx DydxsJEju76A7X1QIVydqXpZ6MHhiKws9Iiut28r9wo4SqUIg8Yh9hAM0n3LLzx/F2gT3wl8JQJv Bho=
X-Report-Abuse-To: spam@quarantine11.antispamcloud.com
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/CLAfIpuQYJLjwIRDUVwDyo_-Aeg>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2020 17:28:00 -0000

On 3/6/2020 7:45 AM, Rich Kulawiec wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 06, 2020 at 09:58:24AM -0500, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
>> That has absolutely no effect on the spread in the West where we have taken
>> none of those measures. 
> Related to this point, I fumbled my way through a scholarly discussion
> of COVID-19 as best as a layman can, and came away with this point: with
> a disease that has a long incubation period, the reported cases tell us
> where it has *been*, not where it *is*.  I'm terribly oversimplifying,
> of course, but this is consistent with the observations being reported
> by WHO et.al.   And it means, among other things, that delayed reactions
> may be much too late.


Most people on this list have no medical background, but many understand
routing and graphs. This is indeed a classic problem of propagation in a
graph, the graph of social contacts. People may get infected if they
have contact with someone who is. Once infected, they are capable of
infecting others for some time. The denser the graph, the faster the
infection spreads. Large gatherings create very dense graphs, and that's
why they are problematic.

-- Christian Huitema