on "positive" organizational culture
Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com> Fri, 06 March 2020 21:27 UTC
Return-Path: <moore@network-heretics.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55A853A0B02 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Mar 2020 13:27:19 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.898
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b6AZN_2nPh2d for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 6 Mar 2020 13:27:18 -0800 (PST)
Received: from wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.24]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3DD443A0B01 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Mar 2020 13:27:18 -0800 (PST)
Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D3F44C5; Fri, 6 Mar 2020 16:27:17 -0500 (EST)
Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 06 Mar 2020 16:27:17 -0500
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=AsqmUgJyyjajC5mTuKzhz/tCOi0oXB2N2+llIN198 Mc=; b=V7M/PeW2KJXb5EVcoITVpfoPZKpa6Ew1DwqV2m7ZjCerh4QnRRS0FlvJM P4FrkIl1ElOTpXzjZkXuIihO+8hAQG8E9rMY/cL7YM2XRXAnPugTaPrb5YNGW/ti ihdAY8NeQQlQd/H/OLWnnLxrkvjKS7nj6m5o9hZthoWsujGDnUICcgpj7pUaHxNY QJpFfN0shfe7ZZnTnMdXxECEHQNcf0kO9xtWAihP5yeMkPimCzlsf4PYsv5JRnqf Qw+5ISfgqTCEh3rtv26lh/y/gC4nSGIw0DOG+kaLPkJgqE6C4sG85LfGZTrzDb9D ykwkMfy60TVMcJhkW4WBPPLPPfOmA==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:M8BiXssNuZwS7YYj5ALoB4muZVYwko7Q6m0wwGOE2m1HIxBPFB1U7w>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedugedrudduvddgudehvdcutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepuffvfhfhkffffgggjggtgfesth ekredttdefjeenucfhrhhomhepmfgvihhthhcuofhoohhrvgcuoehmohhorhgvsehnvght fihorhhkqdhhvghrvghtihgtshdrtghomheqnecukfhppeejuddruddvrddvledrfeenuc evlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehmohhorhgv sehnvghtfihorhhkqdhhvghrvghtihgtshdrtghomh
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:M8BiXrwoRDlHAGI7aDwH48JeOF8jR1E7-lWQ9BI4WrnuwqVWYrbllw> <xmx:M8BiXnYp5bjhThmjI9oDZbp6FYtDXkBdJ4r05bxtPnxiG_arPDCRAQ> <xmx:M8BiXnXYAcQvesWLw_PfZO9pMLU0Bfys2hxjMqX9isPaX8BZMfUQTg> <xmx:NcBiXnbiKQs53M3FHnCrGJhK8gazCzX424bIyq7tbt_P9CqhAAJg2Q>
Received: from [172.24.0.240] (71-12-29-3.static.spbg.sc.charter.com [71.12.29.3]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 730B630611FB; Fri, 6 Mar 2020 16:27:15 -0500 (EST)
Subject: on "positive" organizational culture
To: ietf@ietf.org
References: <ABA284F8-5519-41B4-92DF-6F7467302BBE@ietf.org>
From: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
Message-ID: <7a0c887d-d259-3a75-b6a5-c33a62ee8d5d@network-heretics.com>
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2020 16:27:14 -0500
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <ABA284F8-5519-41B4-92DF-6F7467302BBE@ietf.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/LWb_aSyYN_dI1RslYmbzEKjxJK8>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2020 21:27:19 -0000
I want to state at the outset that this message is about organizational culture in general and not about anyone in particular in the past or present. On 3/5/20 9:03 PM, Jay Daley wrote: > I prefer to aim for a more positive culture both by the way I > contribute and by what I expect of others. The culture of an > organisation is set by the worst behaviour people are willing to expect. I would state your sentence differently - the behavior of those who control an organization, in the long term, approaches the worst behavior that the community is willing to tolerate. This is because there will always be pressures on the leaders that tempt them to "bend the rules", and has nothing to do with the specific people who are in charge. The problem with a "more positive" culture (if by that you mean one in which it's considered inappropriate to ask questions or air concerns), is that a lack of transparency is the perfect incubator for corruption. There is perhaps some room for fine-tuning, but it is not possible to have the best of both worlds. I would say that a positive culture for an organization like IETF is one in which every contributor has reason to believe that their contributions will be evaluated fairly and openly, and in which there is no reason to suspect that anyone is putting a thumb on the scale to favor one contribution over another for reasons other than technical suitability. But those conditions absolutely require transparency, even at the expense of some discomfort. Keith
- IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet Draft… IETF Secretariat
- Re: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Scott O. Bradner
- Re: [107all] IETF 107 Standard Registration and I… Randy Bush
- Re: [107all] IETF 107 Standard Registration and I… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [107all] IETF 107 Standard Registration and I… Randy Bush
- Re: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Jay Daley
- Re: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Robert Raszuk
- Re: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Scott O. Bradner
- Re: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Randy Bush
- Re: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Jay Daley
- Re: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Scott O. Bradner
- Re: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Jay Daley
- Re: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Jay Daley
- Re: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Carsten Bormann
- Re: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Jay Daley
- Re: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Lou Berger
- Re: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Jay Daley
- Re: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Lou Berger
- Re: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Salz, Rich
- Re: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Jay Daley
- Re: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Jay Daley
- Wrt. cancelling IETF107 in-person registration (w… Toerless Eckert
- Re: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Alissa Cooper
- Re: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Alissa Cooper
- Re: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Randy Bush
- Re: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Jay Daley
- Re: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Jay Daley
- RE: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Larry Masinter
- Re: risk zones (was: IETF 107 Standard Registrati… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Dirk Kutscher
- Re: risk zones Joseph Potvin
- Re: risk zones Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Wrt. cancelling IETF107 in-person registratio… Jared Mauch
- Re: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Lou Berger
- Re: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: risk zones Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Toerless Eckert
- Re: risk zones Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: risk zones Rich Kulawiec
- Re: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: risk zones Christian Huitema
- Re: risk zones Randy Bush
- Re: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Jim Fenton
- on "positive" organizational culture Keith Moore
- Re: on "positive" organizational culture Jay Daley
- Re: on "positive" organizational culture S Moonesamy
- Re: IETF 107 Standard Registration and Internet D… Toerless Eckert
- Re: on "positive" organizational culture Keith Moore
- Re: on "positive" organizational culture Jay Daley
- Re: on "positive" organizational culture Toerless Eckert
- Re: on "positive" organizational culture Keith Moore