Re: IETF WG meetings and remote participation

Marc Petit-Huguenin <petithug@acm.org> Sun, 16 February 2020 15:05 UTC

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To: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>, "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
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From: Marc Petit-Huguenin <petithug@acm.org>
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Subject: Re: IETF WG meetings and remote participation
Message-ID: <46f5ba5b-cdbd-202b-2bca-1a39921006e0@acm.org>
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2020 07:04:55 -0800
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I suppose that would require the chairs to provision the name of the draft that will be presented, so the authors can be identified and can use their credentials to upload.  And the chairs will need an override for presentations that are not for an existing draft, or people presenting on behalf of someone else.

On 2/16/20 5:55 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Is there a reason why the chairs have to upload the presentations? Why can't the presenter upload them direction him/herself?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Christer
> 
> 
> 
> On 16/02/2020, 0.19, "ietf on behalf of Marc Petit-Huguenin" <ietf-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of petithug@acm.org> wrote:
> 
>     I agree that material should be posted before the meeting starts, but I'd like to point out that at least twice I sent my slides at least a day ahead of time, but the chairs posted them just a few minutes before the session started.  And I remember of at least one presentation where slides were posted after the presentation.
>     
>     The "attention level hierarchy" when attending a session is:  "I do not care" << "I read an older version of the draft" << "I read the last version of the draft" <<  "I read the slides ahead of time".  The cut-off takes care of making two of these levels possible in most cases.  Maybe presenters should simply refuse to present if people did not had the time to read the material, and make that clear at the microphone.
>     
>     
>     On 2/15/20 1:52 PM, Joel M. Halpern wrote:
>     > Actually, all the slides can be (and should be) posted in the meeting materials section before the meeeting.  For the sessions I co-chair, we make sure to get the material posted before the meeting starts. Preferably enough before that people can look at them.
>     > 
>     > Having said that, I have to disagree with the claim that there is no need to present the material.  Reading slides is NOT the same as getting a decent presentation.  And more importantly, the slides help shape the discussion.  the remind people of context.  They frame the quesitons that need to be discussed.
>     > 
>     > I will admit that a significant part of the time the slides do not frame the discussion well.  But that is still the point.  Telling people "let's talk about draft foo" without framing is not useful.  And pretending a slide deck that was posted, but not presented, is actually framing the discussion is disingenuous.
>     > 
>     > Yours,
>     > Joel
>     > 
>     > On 2/15/2020 4:45 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote:
>     >> Keith,
>     >>
>     >> 100%.
>     >>
>     >> While I always do slides to explain the idea IETF has no space to post it before the meeting along with draft. Perhaps each draft should list private URL with slides for those interested to look at them instead or as add-on to the draft lecture itself ? Should we perhaps enhance IETF submission a bit to optionally accommodate pdf slides with the draft and augment IETF tools repo to provide link to those if present ?
>     >>
>     >> Sending it to chairs to be posted before the meeting is already too late.
>     >>
>     >> I agree slides are much lower bar then video and could be equally or even more helpful.
>     >>
>     >> Best,
>     >> R.
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> On Sat, Feb 15, 2020 at 10:20 PM Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com <mailto:moore@network-heretics.com>> wrote:
>     >>
>     >>     On 2/15/20 2:41 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote:
>     >>
>     >>      > I think each draft should have a youtube video attached such that
>     >>      > instead of wasting time to listen to one actor shows watch it before
>     >>      > and then sped those 10-15 min to interactively discuss.
>     >>
>     >>     Videos are nearly always a huge waste of time, just as presentations in
>     >>     meetings are nearly always a huge waste of time.   If the
>     >>     internet-draft
>     >>     is too dense to be read in a few minutes, post the slides in advance
>     >>     (maybe with notes), expect people to read those, and spend the
>     >>     "presentation" time on questions-and-answers.
>     >>
>     >>     Face-to-face meeting time should be devoted to *interaction*.
>     >>
>     >>     Keith
>     >>
>     >>
>     
>     


-- 
Marc Petit-Huguenin
Email: marc@petit-huguenin.org
Blog: https://marc.petit-huguenin.org
Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petithug