Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64
Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> Tue, 12 October 2021 00:38 UTC
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From: Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com>
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Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 17:38:17 -0700
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Cc: Owen DeLong <owen=40delong.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com>, v6ops list <v6ops@ietf.org>
To: David Farmer <farmer@umn.edu>
References: <DDA36020-90CC-471B-83AD-3D98950F1164@delong.com> <CAKD1Yr0T-7t-UHbsJBMLpTjKhPAV5uUQkux6oby89TVUue7PyA@mail.gmail.com> <CO1PR11MB4881D400EA4681F1505040D2D8AA9@CO1PR11MB4881.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> <CAKD1Yr3TmqFxjKuZ57wS7VuPOf6rJvOwnvnQdFrRLQ=DkZ+CCw@mail.gmail.com> <CO1PR11MB4881F411A4D5BEA7A8479726D8AA9@CO1PR11MB4881.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> <D8AEA194-293B-43E4-BCAE-33CD81FB7D8C@delong.com> <CAKD1Yr2Tug-PFV7wAh0s6-gw8W3LcLG7wC1fD7Lu_hMZQYKdtw@mail.gmail.com> <08D2885E-B824-48E8-9703-DCA98771FA37@delong.com> <CAKD1Yr2EVsY3tYUf56R0Q1+KVrowtqh-HgwXj5vxzy4wd-vkTg@mail.gmail.com> <1A6ED87B-666E-439C-852F-2E5C904C0515@delong.com> <CAKD1Yr23fY2DJDvB-9eVFRsxnBnZQ0kZuZfYUfRUHYW=_D=enA@mail.gmail.com> <CAN-Dau1z0q0R61x7iY+Wg_cFRU0jmqr+fR0y=bSXxj+K-n722w@mail.gmail.com> <CAKD1Yr1T_mXfxJGHOrBfqZfexm6GTrUqnFi57710pTroKQK6uQ@mail.gmail.com> <702CB018-1A02-4B32-B9AA-7C7B31521F12@delong.com> <CAKD1Yr0jZR8Efzr_Y6FeiBvHYS8ATmDupx2ABTXXy-rSA_QjmA@mail.gmail.com> <1adb70a8-db0a-4ea6-f721-c1035343cda3@foobar.org> <DM6PR02MB69249D4F0A8003E77EC9F153C3B19@DM6PR02MB6924.namprd02.prod.outlook.com> <E1FED93B-674C-46DD-8C39-F6C30475C48A@delong.com> <CAKD1Yr34jv_N0jGKdg=sG76oGU7PdRjYFC_-w9Uvzs=7oGm38w@mail.gmail.com> <E6316781-AC7D-438F-B216-75B1DF9217DC@delong.com> <CAKD1Yr10OKMJ1y8bs5xpt6jS8ZWsqs66oFCXmp-QLySS5Yn4hg@mail.gmail.com> <CAN-Dau3JxPucFnbwZB-M5UD3KkSV++7u03AMQ7vOZJKqPHpJ3Q@mail.gmail.com> <403087B1-51A5-4DF4-9884-441D443DACC2@delong.com> <CAN-Dau3FBLVUSTQsFTrbDEAdy95L8evPdeD_Jg1sK34+DK0O1A@mail.gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64
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> On Oct 11, 2021, at 10:52 , David Farmer <farmer@umn.edu> wrote: > > > > On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 12:09 PM Owen DeLong <owen=40delong.com@dmarc.ietf.org <mailto:40delong.com@dmarc.ietf.org>> wrote: > > >> On Oct 11, 2021, at 09:37 , David Farmer <farmer=40umn.edu@dmarc.ietf.org <mailto:farmer=40umn.edu@dmarc.ietf.org>> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 1:13 AM Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org <mailto:40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>> wrote: >> On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 1:36 PM Owen DeLong <owen=40delong.com@dmarc.ietf.org <mailto:40delong.com@dmarc.ietf.org>> wrote: >> Suppose an OS developer ships a DHCPv6 implementation that requires N addresses and does not enable the IPv6 stack unless it receives all of them. How does that do anything to address statements such as, "my network, my rules" that have been made on this thread? Any operator that wants to assign only one address per device still cannot use such hosts on their network, and can still criticise the implementation for not doing what they want. >> >> At least it provides a possible way forward for networks that don’t want to assign addresses outside of IA_NA or IA_PD to provide addressing to android devices. >> >> Surely a single IA_NA + a routed IA_PD would meet your requirements, right? >> >> IA_PD, even by itself without IA_NA, has none of the concerns in this thread. RFC 7934 explicitly recommends it, actually. Not sure if enterprise network operators can or would want to deploy IA_PD though. Is that something that we can nudge the industry towards? >> >> I think this is a perfectly reasonable option for the general purpose use case, but I will note there is no clear guidance for the use case of IA_PD on Hosts, and even the guidance for the use of IA_PD with routers is somewhat fuzzy or at least incomplete, in my opinion. Nevertheless, this may or may not be reasonable for special or restricted purpose use cases, especially when compliance regimes are required, like PCI or NIST-800-171. I support IA_PA on hosts, but whether or not that is an acceptable replacement for IA_AN and/or IA_TA for all use cases is very much an open question, and not entirely a technical question for that matter. > > At the point where a host solicits and/or accepts IA_PD, it has effectively declared itself to be a router. > > Since most android devices have multiple interface and the ability to provide a “hotspot” capability, they are, in fact, routers. > > Yes, that is technically correct, and I expect most enterprises don't, or at least don't want to, view Android devices as routers. Also, I expect extending the network or "tethering" is not acceptable behavior in a PCI or NIST-800-171 compliance contexts. So, that is part of the challenge for this approach. and why this may not be an acceptable replacement for IA_AN and/or IA_TA. Agreed… I’m fine with android implementing IA_NA and then duking it out over how many IA_NA/IA_TA addresses it requires to not shut down the IPv6 stack. Most of the enterprises that I know of holding up IPv6 deployments “because android” are willing to work around this in various ways (It might get a PD, but the delegated prefix may have significant restrictions or no access to the LAN, etc.) The clients I’ve talked to are willing to work with the scenario where android only partially breaks on their network as long as it gets at least one IA_NA address and they can manage that. They don’t mind a user having an android that can open a ticket to be told “yeah, that’s because android’s iPv6 implementation is broken, here’s Lorenzo’s email.” The don’t want a situation where android just breaks outright because it thinks it created an address through SLAAC that can’t actually reach anything like it expects (which is what happens currently, because android utterly and in blatant violation of the RFCs ignores the M bit). Owen
- [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 David Farmer
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Erik Kline
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Bob Harold
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 daveb
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 David Farmer
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 David Farmer
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 sthaug
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Ola Thoresen
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Ola Thoresen
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Nick Hilliard
- [v6ops] Why enterprises aren't adopting IPv6 (Re:… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Chris Cummings
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Nick Buraglio
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Kevin Myers
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Dale W. Carder
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Why enterprises aren't adopting IPv6 … Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Why enterprises aren't adopting IPv6 … otroan
- Re: [v6ops] Why enterprises aren't adopting IPv6 … Nick Buraglio
- Re: [v6ops] Why enterprises aren't adopting IPv6 … Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] Why enterprises aren't adopting IPv6 … otroan
- Re: [v6ops] Why enterprises aren't adopting IPv6 … Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Why enterprises aren't adopting IPv6 … Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Why enterprises aren't adopting IPv6 … Gábor LENCSE
- Re: [v6ops] Why enterprises aren't adopting IPv6 … otroan
- Re: [v6ops] Why enterprises aren't adopting IPv6 … Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Why enterprises aren't adopting IPv6 … Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] Why enterprises aren't adopting IPv6 … Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] Why enterprises aren't adopting IPv6 … otroan
- Re: [v6ops] Why enterprises aren't adopting IPv6 … Owen DeLong
- [v6ops] Is there a problem? [was: Why enterprises… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] Is there a problem? [was: Why enterpr… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] Is there a problem? [was: Why enterpr… Clark Gaylord
- Re: [v6ops] Is there a problem? [was: Why enterpr… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] Is there a problem? [was: Why enterpr… Hamilton, Robert
- Re: [v6ops] Is there a problem? [was: Why enterpr… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 David Farmer
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 David Farmer
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 David Farmer
- Re: [v6ops] Is there a problem? [was: Why enterpr… Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] Is there a problem? [was: Why enterpr… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] Is there a problem? [was: Why enterpr… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] Is there a problem? [was: Why enterpr… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Is there a problem? [was: Why enterpr… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Is there a problem? [was: Why enterpr… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: [v6ops] Why enterprises aren't adopting IPv6 … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] Why enterprises aren't adopting IPv6 … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 otroan
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 David Farmer
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 David Farmer
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 David Farmer
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 David Farmer
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 David Farmer
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Clark Gaylord
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 David Farmer
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 David Farmer
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 David Farmer
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 David Farmer
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [v6ops] RFC7934 BCP 'Host Address Avaialabili… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] When Android might disconnect because… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] When Android might disconnect because… Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] When Android might disconnect because… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] When Android might disconnect because… David Farmer
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] University WiFi (was: Implementation … David Farmer
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 David Farmer
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Simon
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 David Farmer
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Dale W. Carder
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- [v6ops] Campus roaming [was Re: Implementation St… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Simon
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] When Android might disconnect because… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] When Android might disconnect because… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] "all hosts SHOULD implement address c… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] Implementation Status of PREF64 Fred Baker
- Re: [v6ops] "all hosts SHOULD implement address c… Alexandre Petrescu