[DNSOP] Role of informational RFCs Re: DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-dns-rpz
Suzanne Woolf <suzworldwide@gmail.com> Wed, 21 December 2016 15:04 UTC
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From: Suzanne Woolf <suzworldwide@gmail.com>
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Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2016 10:04:38 -0500
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References: <CADyWQ+ETSd199ok0fgh=PB=--hW7buPgSoCg22aK51Bk4xxBmw@mail.gmail.com> <C18E2D4E-EE89-4AF6-B4A0-FAD1A7A01B5E@vpnc.org> <8f78a52b-01ae-f529-a1ec-d7eb90fe94be@bellis.me.uk> <6EBB4C5C-E2D9-40B9-86B8-03614804282D@vpnc.org> <20161220174650.GA884@server.ds9a.nl> <E6401D03-04D9-4884-ABC7-022C2E763B0C@vpnc.org> <20161221071436.GD884@server.ds9a.nl>
To: bert hubert <bert.hubert@powerdns.com>
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Cc: dnsop@ietf.org, Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>
Subject: [DNSOP] Role of informational RFCs Re: DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-dns-rpz
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Hi, Just for clarity— no one is proposing standards track for this document; the intended status has been consistently discussed as “Informational”. In discussing RPZ, as we’ve seen with other technology in the past, there’s a difference between “the consequences of having a controversial technology in widespread use” and “given a controversial technology in widespread use, the consequences of having an RFC about it.” As an IETF working group, DNSOP has a lot more to say about the latter than the former. In the past, the WG has sometimes taken the position that there’s value in an informational document on a widely-used and interoperable protocol extension, even if the goal isn’t to make it part of the formal standard. RPZ seems to be such a technology, in that it’s widely deployed in the operational internet— an RFC is obviously neither necessary nor sufficient for that. Users of such an informational RFC that’s separate from vendor documentation might include operators who want to deploy the feature responsibly, new implementers who need a reference on how to make new code interoperable, and operators who want to avoid use of a feature or simply understand its impact on their environment. If the question is “Does the existence of an Informational RFC mean the IETF is endorsing or promoting a technology or practice?” the answer is “No." If the question is “Does the existence of an Informational RFC mean people will think the IETF is endorsing or promoting a technology or practice, and are they more likely to use it as a result?” the answer is pretty subjective and tends to be “It depends”— on the technology, on whether the document includes warnings about shortcomings and side effects, and on the forces that got the technology invented and deployed in the first place. Suzanne > On Dec 21, 2016, at 2:14 AM, bert hubert <bert.hubert@powerdns.com> wrote: > > On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 10:46:40AM -0800, Paul Hoffman wrote: >>> Unbound is also slated to have support for RPZ. >> Unbound can document it or point to the ISC documentation. > > We might as well stop doing standards all together then. We have something > that works. It interoperates. There is an ecosystem of services around it. > > And what do people say? "Not going to standardize it". > > The thing is, RPZ is not actually something that was slapped together. It > makes sense. Vernon and Paul clearly were on to something when they wrote > it. > > In other words, it is not "documenting a configuration file". It is a great > thing to be able to point to and say this is the standard, this is how we do > things. > > But meanwhile I will now use TCP/IP to send this message, without having to > refer to some old BSD documentation. > > Bert > > > _______________________________________________ > DNSOP mailing list > DNSOP@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop
- [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-dns-r… tjw ietf
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Suzanne Woolf
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Ray Bellis
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Jim Reid
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Matthew Pounsett
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Allan Liska
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Ray Bellis
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Tim Wicinski
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Ray Bellis
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… bert hubert
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Ray Bellis
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Warren Kumari
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Ralf Weber
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… bert hubert
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… bert hubert
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… william manning
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Ted Lemon
- [DNSOP] Role of informational RFCs Re: DNSOP Call… Suzanne Woolf
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… sthaug
- Re: [DNSOP] Role of informational RFCs Re: DNSOP … Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… sthaug
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Matthew Pounsett
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Matthew Pounsett
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Matthew Pounsett
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Vernon Schryver
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Vernon Schryver
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Robert Edmonds
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Nolan Berry
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Role of informational RFCs Re: DNSOP … Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Ralf Weber
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Patrik Wallstrom
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… John Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Donald Eastlake
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Scott Schmit
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… John Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Richard Clayton
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Scott Schmit
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… John Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Vernon Schryver
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… william manning
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… joel jaeggli
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Warren Kumari
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Mukund Sivaraman
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Warren Kumari
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Vernon Schryver
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Tony Finch
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… william manning
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Barry Raveendran Greene
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Scott Schmit
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Avri Doria
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Barry Raveendran Greene
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Vernon Schryver
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Philip Homburg
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… 神明達哉
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Vernon Schryver
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Philip Homburg
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Ralf Weber
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Rich Kulawiec
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… tjw ietf
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Warren Kumari
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Dave Crocker
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… joel jaeggli
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Dave Crocker
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… william manning
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Ray Bellis
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Suzanne Woolf
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Mukund Sivaraman
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Dave Crocker
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Paul Wouters
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Dave Crocker
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Petr Špaček
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Dave Crocker
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Barry Raveendran Greene
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Melinda Shore
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Dave Crocker
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Dave Crocker
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Doug Barton
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Barry Raveendran Greene
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Vernon Schryver
- Re: [DNSOP] DNSOP Call for Adoption draft-vixie-d… Vernon Schryver