Re: Mail is worse than everything except all the alternatives, was Service outages planned for April 25

John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> Thu, 28 April 2022 22:11 UTC

Return-Path: <johnl@iecc.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E93CC15E6C1 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 15:11:46 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.851
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.851 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=iecc.com header.b=b2g8JJat; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=taugh.com header.b=LnzL7PwZ
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Yo--6Aptp5Zr for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 15:11:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 70558C15E3F1 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 15:11:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (qmail 61214 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2022 22:11:39 -0000
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:cleverness; s=ef1b.626b111b.k2204; bh=3yarEsoQBpNlPh/yI4Obg/zk5VkWSnKaiRXZskMBdjI=; b=b2g8JJatOjnMNQMdcalYLU/x31hY9UL/+QedKYaIdeal8qWBscaCy4rCVT6XFmm6psPFe5Wja1/KaNkZeGrVaVsGbrKvZlN16D94Lq5MxUbycL+OGaOlR0KrYyhIeyvutvFw6lXeMUMt4QJ9xTMrM8lnnxALiyGaol6pUAaHb3PMkv7dut72wY5QyehGOdlRNcYu5rYbUFyq+CZnpg+UAAw4yrIJZVWlpF4Qtgt3IYfanYfqmIDF+/s4PbYklCeJesJHTBiZ/r/xTbJMb8TrDDyY76EkO1N1KBipIKSM8kBwoL8qnxyqYmmaozOS9458BpmafuJIlr1jNDc3KTWoew==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:cleverness; s=ef1b.626b111b.k2204; bh=3yarEsoQBpNlPh/yI4Obg/zk5VkWSnKaiRXZskMBdjI=; b=LnzL7PwZQkmFPTTeTWw6An5kqBpf5E12bb8MkXtiSyWe66/GuiPP4qqGYEiQ6B3ZqyIBWI8MoRBZd4tK9oNO7VkrqUywEVqmviciXmVhTHYtK735n4DYewAQm7REZRRnyuo4hAZxuEb2bfLXD8p7bRVhXbQrIhgLazN26UiZ1JvPrYhYD72rXsRpEQW2kmupXRV0WTXL/GCpfxp44OQrri8+qW4oQ0cYhhoftfw3pISTg+cy/yejCqD6/WZMXs6NtIF/Y1n1UO83G+2jOAY1Z/6binH5w8Y/YB0+lZxkpFeB/F8v1DMvGZbFpItHBOyLdju3EXeun5hXEBHk+ijFgA==
Received: from ary.qy ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPS (TLS1.3 ECDHE-RSA AES-256-GCM AEAD) via TCP6; 28 Apr 2022 22:11:39 -0000
Received: by ary.qy (Postfix, from userid 501) id 9BFD63F11488; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 18:11:38 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 18:11:38 -0400
Message-Id: <20220428221138.9BFD63F11488@ary.qy>
From: John Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
To: ietf@ietf.org
Cc: moore@network-heretics.com
Subject: Re: Mail is worse than everything except all the alternatives, was Service outages planned for April 25
In-Reply-To: <2c5df733-0f86-d319-b886-81882328caa9@network-heretics.com>
Organization: Taughannock Networks
X-Headerized: yes
Cleverness: minimal
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/AMzEKpE6KoYgh_xZw3cZiUti8TY>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 22:11:46 -0000

It appears that Keith Moore  <moore@network-heretics.com> said:
>Also, why should it be a dark art to have legitimate email successfully 
>delivered?

Because spammers try very hard to make their mail look like legitimate
mail, and unlike you, they have a financial incentive to figure out
and evade the filters.

It may not seem fair, but it's reality. I would like to be able to set
up my new nice mail server and send my nice mail without having to do
SPF and DKIM and DMARC and MTA-STS and TLSA and IP reputation and
while I am waiting I would also like a pony.

R's,
John