Re: Mail is worse than everything except all the alternatives, was Service outages planned for April 25
Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com> Sat, 30 April 2022 18:57 UTC
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Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 14:57:34 -0400
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Subject: Re: Mail is worse than everything except all the alternatives, was Service outages planned for April 25
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From: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
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On 4/30/22 14:40, touch@strayalpha.com wrote: > Most people understand three distinct modes: > > pull / directory (Facebook page, Twitter feed, Snapchat stream) > interruptive push (call, SMS, FB messenger, Twitter DM) > non-intteruptive push > > What’s “rude” largely depends on whether what you send “should” use > the mode you’ve picked. Blast emails are rude because they should have > been pull-based. Phone/SMS is rude for info that doesn’t expect an > immediate reply. Facebook is rude whe private info is posted. IMO it's always rude to expect strangers to use Facebook, for any purpose whatsoever, because it conveys an expectation that the other party should have zero regard for their privacy. I think most people don't think things through that thoroughly, they just gravitate to whatever seems "conventional" within their peer group, with slightly different conventions from one peer group to another. I've sometimes heard young people say things like "email is how you communicate with old people". > There is a cultural/generational shift that provides nuance for call > vs SMS/FBM/TDM, i.e., the difference is whether you need interactive > immediate engagement (the former) or ASAP but not realtime interactive > (the latter). Those who grew up with phones think less of how calls > interrupt; those who didn’t, think it’s much more rude (generally). I sense this shift also, and to some degree it makes sense. But not everyone sees it quite the same way. I find SMS great for communicating with someone while traveling or while they're traveling, or trying to coordinate some meeting ("I'm running ten minutes late", or "I'm parked out front of the building."), occasionally useful for getting an appointment on my calendar, and almost horrible for anything else. (Something I've observed for decades is that each medium has, in practice, different implicit meaning. Back in the 1980s if you sent a telex it meant it was really important, even though it was more expensive and slower and less usable than email or fax. These days we have different choices, but we choose partially on how a particular kind of traffic is perceived. Email is often considered to be low priority simply because a lot of people don't read email that often, and also because it's so unreliable in practice.) > > However, the only method we currently have (or that has survived) for > “post for later response” *is* email. That’s partly why business uses > it (both internally and to engage customers); they’ve backed off of > SMS for “hot deals” because it’s unnecessarily interruptive. A lot of this is due to the user interface more than the medium. We can respond to old SMS messages, but usually our phones don't make it easy to keep track of which messages we've seen and which we've responded to. (a lot of email UAs aren't much better, sigh.) Keith
- Service outages planned for April 25 Robert Sparks
- Re: Service outages planned for April 25 Robert Sparks
- Re: Service outages planned for April 25 tom petch
- Re: Service outages planned for April 25 Jay Daley
- Re: Service outages planned for April 25 Keith Moore
- Re: Service outages planned for April 25 Carsten Bormann
- Re: Service outages planned for April 25 Keith Moore
- Re: Service outages planned for April 25 Carsten Bormann
- Re: Service outages planned for April 25 Keith Moore
- Email and reputation (was Re: Service outages pla… Vittorio Bertola
- Re: Email and reputation (was Re: Service outages… Keith Moore
- Re: Mail is worse than everything except all the … John Levine
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… John Levine
- Re: Mail is worse than everything except all the … Keith Moore
- Re: Mail is worse than everything except all the … Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Mail is worse than everything except all the … Keith Moore
- Re: Mail is worse than everything except all the … John R Levine
- Re: Mail is worse than everything except all the … Keith Moore
- Re: Mail is worse than everything except all the … touch@strayalpha.com
- Re: Mail is worse than everything except all the … Keith Moore
- Re: Mail is worse than everything except all the … Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: Mail is worse than everything except all the … Keith Moore
- Re: Mail is worse than everything except all the … touch@strayalpha.com
- Re: Mail is worse than everything except all the … Keith Moore
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Vittorio Bertola
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… John R Levine
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Keith Moore
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Christian Huitema
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Keith Moore
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Keith Moore
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Masataka Ohta
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Keith Moore
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Masataka Ohta
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Keith Moore
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Michael Richardson
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Laurence Lundblade
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Keith Moore
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… John Levine
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
- Re: mail crypto, was the introduction problem, wa… John Levine
- Re: mail crypto, was the introduction problem, wa… Keith Moore
- Re: mail crypto, was the introduction problem, wa… Christopher Morrow
- Re: mail crypto, was the introduction problem, wa… Keith Moore
- Re: mail crypto, was the introduction problem, wa… John Levine
- Re: mail crypto, was the introduction problem, wa… Keith Moore
- Re: mail crypto, was the introduction problem, wa… Christopher Morrow
- Re: mail crypto, was the introduction problem, wa… Keith Moore
- Deployment strategy for email+ Was: Mail is worse… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: mail crypto, was the introduction problem, wa… Phillip Hallam-Baker
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- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… John Levine
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Keith Moore
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… John R Levine
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Masataka Ohta
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Masataka Ohta
- Trying to do too much (was Re: the introduction p… Jim Fenton
- Re: Trying to do too much (was Re: the introducti… lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk
- Re: Trying to do too much (was Re: the introducti… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Trying to do too much (was Re: the introducti… Keith Moore
- Re: Trying to do too much (was Re: the introducti… Keith Moore
- Re: Trying to do too much (was Re: the introducti… Michael Richardson
- Re: Trying to do too much (was Re: the introducti… Masataka Ohta
- Re: Trying to do too much (was Re: the introducti… Masataka Ohta
- Re: potable e-mail, now Trying to do too much (wa… John Levine
- Re: Trying to do too much (was Re: the introducti… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Trying to do too much (was Re: the introducti… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: potable e-mail, now Trying to do too much (wa… Michael Richardson
- Re: Trying to do too much (was Re: the introducti… Keith Moore
- Re: portable e-mail, now Trying to do too much (w… John R Levine
- Re: potable e-mail, now Trying to do too much (wa… Keith Moore
- Re: Trying to do too much (was Re: the introducti… Masataka Ohta
- Re: potable e-mail, now Trying to do too much (wa… Masataka Ohta
- Re: portable e-mail, now Trying to do too much (w… Michael Richardson
- Re: portable e-mail, now Trying to do too much (w… John Levine
- Re: portable e-mail, now Trying to do too much (w… Michael Richardson
- We are not a mail forwarding service Carsten Bormann
- Re: We are not a mail forwarding service John R Levine
- ugly hacks (was: Re: We are not a mail forwarding… Keith Moore
- Re: ugly hacks (was: Re: We are not a mail forwar… John Levine
- Re: ugly hacks (was: Re: We are not a mail forwar… Keith Moore
- Re: We are not a mail forwarding service Robert Sparks
- Re: We are not a mail forwarding service Carsten Bormann
- Re: portable e-mail, now Trying to do too much (w… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: potable e-mail, now Trying to do too much (wa… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: portable e-mail, now Trying to do too much (w… Keith Moore
- Re: portable e-mail, now Trying to do too much (w… Phillip Hallam-Baker