Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reputation (was Re: Service outages planned for April 25)

Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> Tue, 03 May 2022 13:48 UTC

Return-Path: <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7A93C14F72F for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 3 May 2022 06:48:19 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.096
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=sandelman.ca
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U2Rz6OnRQMEA for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 3 May 2022 06:48:13 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BBCC7C14F726 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Tue, 3 May 2022 06:47:53 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4222538BE0 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Tue, 3 May 2022 10:00:56 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id h3lUqCKwC9nM for <ietf@ietf.org>; Tue, 3 May 2022 10:00:55 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3934938BE1 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Tue, 3 May 2022 10:00:55 -0400 (EDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=sandelman.ca; s=mail; t=1651586455; bh=hIIwQMcaIxd61ASCzufIzWAPDmPb7a00XYghEW7grJ4=; h=From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=pnyybuiY8kLQrfOz/3IjOe+jlANHJJ33EWZRpM9T/xGDptUh99m2kse7eIp6y/eIF ugboPTA0BUCabAyHZjxop6Yr12LJ1ZTFw1BlRbIabAThnQxrN5Uq1V/TVcpaYnLvag FSXufctuwipFDVkioC+jC5N6iuGGa7BF7wO4NM0Se0gU016ZQGFQA0Z60xKYVddDA4 rCENYFMrjc2ZTVYcS7uFHV2B6rxugcEsW/UQR/5Cg/Wbp3ucwPkymCKPs/rNC7J8BP Z6XCOl4CYiexWxSK7FZ4QqYCUmawsedOQmDwUz7haq+gSn4rfCb6QgWRdka6tM0XWh GN3uT+n8LKLmw==
Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1061147 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Tue, 3 May 2022 09:47:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
To: ietf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reputation (was Re: Service outages planned for April 25)
In-Reply-To: <2E576046-0532-41C8-AF51-1C2D09BC8BAE@dukhovni.org>
References: <dcc27c29-51f8-c2a4-8ce4-ee1a3c6cb017@nostrum.com> <AAE3C51B-0150-483C-8244-3D60BC31B19A@tzi.org> <2c5df733-0f86-d319-b886-81882328caa9@network-heretics.com> <1870005490.14504.1651151102962@appsuite-gw1.open-xchange.com> <t4f3j1$1mpc$1@gal.iecc.com> <626060406.28268.1651487745123@appsuite-gw1.open-xchange.com> <2480fd36-c16a-6d98-ddac-15d02259ffbe@taugh.com> <837df6ce-a771-ff2f-515b-1021cc242c23@network-heretics.com> <2E576046-0532-41C8-AF51-1C2D09BC8BAE@dukhovni.org>
X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 27.1
X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m<nPbLgmtKK-5dC@#:k
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg="pgp-sha512"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"
Date: Tue, 03 May 2022 09:47:50 -0400
Message-ID: <32031.1651585670@localhost>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/IKGQplaRmvFQfq7lPlj1yAfg6pM>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 May 2022 13:48:19 -0000

Viktor Dukhovni <ietf-dane@dukhovni.org> wrote:
    > Until encrypted email is usable (**search**, long-term signature validation,
    > personal private key rollover, ...), all the key distribution tech in the
    > world won't make it worth adopting.

But signed email is useable, and having enterprises, banks, and governments
identity roles would be a significant win against phishing, and yet it's
still not happening.

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>   . o O ( IPv6 IøT consulting )
           Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide