Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reputation (was Re: Service outages planned for April 25)
John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> Tue, 03 May 2022 20:44 UTC
Return-Path: <johnl@iecc.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B3F2C157B33 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 3 May 2022 13:44:06 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.852
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.852 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=iecc.com header.b=ktj8pXfj; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=taugh.com header.b=0+ZqG5g/
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C6IoztwtjDmj for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 3 May 2022 13:44:01 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 96BFCC14F747 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Tue, 3 May 2022 13:44:01 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (qmail 41005 invoked from network); 3 May 2022 20:43:59 -0000
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:cleverness; s=a02b.6271940f.k2205; bh=VfWmTWAZsbSUKx9cEiizExTGe4jS2YnExi+35i0o41c=; b=ktj8pXfjDx/rs0pIIXi5LA9wRFjIxy/rMsaK+zvnFTj1RUHm6O9mXe1W4xUznsN1BOyhR0DCTPIJ2YLtKhoGm8uz9C2dLdBk/WnDz0eikbSRf9SfQ+sAhTHAvzzWRtlL3PuhVdSoAUK/LlPdO6Bg5zXWytDESAtzbEINY+rTUXYdoTixrQdDc8TnGglIjL2xM86Cn/uU0HGwXXZoGa+svzd+LS1UCuDxM98/urhEPruVJ8OQanYqHoiv+ccfMm+zmjUQImbu9rsJFrnwmWYuuQpG+YIFNgzoayZafR3+acFdEDhDpmNY2fdC9lxJbbgCbG6hJu6RhXBpKdbvKepV3g==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:cleverness; s=a02b.6271940f.k2205; bh=VfWmTWAZsbSUKx9cEiizExTGe4jS2YnExi+35i0o41c=; b=0+ZqG5g/ZZG2d9ieTB01rYfq6Rlk1y8LI67BXb9pXcTVi5tBHv+fajJ1He+JwsSz5XJXfA5Svc690oY0SHn79ZjZyaPP8QYsQFNig3KlSvprx0SguAwwWbou6oU7BZUylyqY3eJ9B0+/wKRASXAXS5PSpKVaHe9OoEX0Kfogx+DNRAnwPobZy/FFYOD0bJ8DvkXYAjOMqz9SNjQXji5Bz5e7D18QwSeWf5GOrzZoXRFlkiAf2d33LhnltVcKQ3py8AGiQHUiUpvbihJo8/OnBHi05bMAUoMiAPYroOgDdYCtA+UHz+IGQte7DF2fSe9yx5OyzoiwlylqqVaI2oAvyw==
Received: from ary.qy ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPS (TLS1.3 ECDHE-RSA AES-256-GCM AEAD) via TCP6; 03 May 2022 20:43:58 -0000
Received: by ary.qy (Postfix, from userid 501) id 6A7FB3F54797; Tue, 3 May 2022 16:43:57 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Tue, 03 May 2022 16:43:57 -0400
Message-Id: <20220503204358.6A7FB3F54797@ary.qy>
From: John Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
To: ietf@ietf.org
Cc: mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca
Subject: Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reputation (was Re: Service outages planned for April 25)
In-Reply-To: <32031.1651585670@localhost>
Organization: Taughannock Networks
X-Headerized: yes
Cleverness: minimal
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/QrQQ9doD1O_NxoPGvMuXhvTHUVE>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 May 2022 20:44:06 -0000
It appears that Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> said: >-=-=-=-=-=- > > >Viktor Dukhovni <ietf-dane@dukhovni.org> wrote: > > Until encrypted email is usable (**search**, long-term signature validation, > > personal private key rollover, ...), all the key distribution tech in the > > world won't make it worth adopting. > >But signed email is useable, and having enterprises, banks, and governments >identity roles would be a significant win against phishing, and yet it's >still not happening. The people who have implemented RFC 6376 would disagree with you, as would many of the ones who've implemented RFC 7489. R's, John
- Service outages planned for April 25 Robert Sparks
- Re: Service outages planned for April 25 Robert Sparks
- Re: Service outages planned for April 25 tom petch
- Re: Service outages planned for April 25 Jay Daley
- Re: Service outages planned for April 25 Keith Moore
- Re: Service outages planned for April 25 Carsten Bormann
- Re: Service outages planned for April 25 Keith Moore
- Re: Service outages planned for April 25 Carsten Bormann
- Re: Service outages planned for April 25 Keith Moore
- Email and reputation (was Re: Service outages pla… Vittorio Bertola
- Re: Email and reputation (was Re: Service outages… Keith Moore
- Re: Mail is worse than everything except all the … John Levine
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… John Levine
- Re: Mail is worse than everything except all the … Keith Moore
- Re: Mail is worse than everything except all the … Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Mail is worse than everything except all the … Keith Moore
- Re: Mail is worse than everything except all the … John R Levine
- Re: Mail is worse than everything except all the … Keith Moore
- Re: Mail is worse than everything except all the … touch@strayalpha.com
- Re: Mail is worse than everything except all the … Keith Moore
- Re: Mail is worse than everything except all the … Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: Mail is worse than everything except all the … Keith Moore
- Re: Mail is worse than everything except all the … touch@strayalpha.com
- Re: Mail is worse than everything except all the … Keith Moore
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Vittorio Bertola
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… John R Levine
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Keith Moore
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Christian Huitema
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Keith Moore
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Keith Moore
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Masataka Ohta
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Keith Moore
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Masataka Ohta
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Keith Moore
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Michael Richardson
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Laurence Lundblade
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Keith Moore
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… John Levine
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)
- Re: mail crypto, was the introduction problem, wa… John Levine
- Re: mail crypto, was the introduction problem, wa… Keith Moore
- Re: mail crypto, was the introduction problem, wa… Christopher Morrow
- Re: mail crypto, was the introduction problem, wa… Keith Moore
- Re: mail crypto, was the introduction problem, wa… John Levine
- Re: mail crypto, was the introduction problem, wa… Keith Moore
- Re: mail crypto, was the introduction problem, wa… Christopher Morrow
- Re: mail crypto, was the introduction problem, wa… Keith Moore
- Deployment strategy for email+ Was: Mail is worse… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: mail crypto, was the introduction problem, wa… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… John Levine
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Keith Moore
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… John R Levine
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Masataka Ohta
- Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reput… Masataka Ohta
- Trying to do too much (was Re: the introduction p… Jim Fenton
- Re: Trying to do too much (was Re: the introducti… lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk
- Re: Trying to do too much (was Re: the introducti… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Trying to do too much (was Re: the introducti… Keith Moore
- Re: Trying to do too much (was Re: the introducti… Keith Moore
- Re: Trying to do too much (was Re: the introducti… Michael Richardson
- Re: Trying to do too much (was Re: the introducti… Masataka Ohta
- Re: Trying to do too much (was Re: the introducti… Masataka Ohta
- Re: potable e-mail, now Trying to do too much (wa… John Levine
- Re: Trying to do too much (was Re: the introducti… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Trying to do too much (was Re: the introducti… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: potable e-mail, now Trying to do too much (wa… Michael Richardson
- Re: Trying to do too much (was Re: the introducti… Keith Moore
- Re: portable e-mail, now Trying to do too much (w… John R Levine
- Re: potable e-mail, now Trying to do too much (wa… Keith Moore
- Re: Trying to do too much (was Re: the introducti… Masataka Ohta
- Re: potable e-mail, now Trying to do too much (wa… Masataka Ohta
- Re: portable e-mail, now Trying to do too much (w… Michael Richardson
- Re: portable e-mail, now Trying to do too much (w… John Levine
- Re: portable e-mail, now Trying to do too much (w… Michael Richardson
- We are not a mail forwarding service Carsten Bormann
- Re: We are not a mail forwarding service John R Levine
- ugly hacks (was: Re: We are not a mail forwarding… Keith Moore
- Re: ugly hacks (was: Re: We are not a mail forwar… John Levine
- Re: ugly hacks (was: Re: We are not a mail forwar… Keith Moore
- Re: We are not a mail forwarding service Robert Sparks
- Re: We are not a mail forwarding service Carsten Bormann
- Re: portable e-mail, now Trying to do too much (w… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: potable e-mail, now Trying to do too much (wa… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: portable e-mail, now Trying to do too much (w… Keith Moore
- Re: portable e-mail, now Trying to do too much (w… Phillip Hallam-Baker