Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reputation (was Re: Service outages planned for April 25)

"Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)" <lyndon@orthanc.ca> Tue, 03 May 2022 23:55 UTC

Return-Path: <lyndon@orthanc.ca>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0987C14F74C for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 3 May 2022 16:55:09 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.9
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qGyPj12ABp2G for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 3 May 2022 16:55:09 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from orthanc.ca (orthanc.ca [208.79.93.154]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA512) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F8D4C14F725 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Tue, 3 May 2022 16:54:59 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from orthanc.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orthanc.ca (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 67ff6a5a for <ietf@ietf.org>; Tue, 3 May 2022 16:54:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM)" <lyndon@orthanc.ca>
To: ietf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reputation (was Re: Service outages planned for April 25)
In-reply-to: <2E576046-0532-41C8-AF51-1C2D09BC8BAE@dukhovni.org>
References: <dcc27c29-51f8-c2a4-8ce4-ee1a3c6cb017@nostrum.com> <AAE3C51B-0150-483C-8244-3D60BC31B19A@tzi.org> <2c5df733-0f86-d319-b886-81882328caa9@network-heretics.com> <1870005490.14504.1651151102962@appsuite-gw1.open-xchange.com> <t4f3j1$1mpc$1@gal.iecc.com> <626060406.28268.1651487745123@appsuite-gw1.open-xchange.com> <2480fd36-c16a-6d98-ddac-15d02259ffbe@taugh.com> <837df6ce-a771-ff2f-515b-1021cc242c23@network-heretics.com> <2E576046-0532-41C8-AF51-1C2D09BC8BAE@dukhovni.org>
Comments: In-reply-to Viktor Dukhovni <ietf-dane@dukhovni.org> message dated "Tue, 03 May 2022 00:46:11 -0400."
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-ID: <59040.1651622098.1@orthanc.ca>
Date: Tue, 03 May 2022 16:54:58 -0700
Message-ID: <93d9d549a93ce396@orthanc.ca>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/gShSoEpQzKxGlYmXpNUQfEM7cRQ>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 May 2022 23:55:09 -0000

Viktor Dukhovni writes:

> Key distribution and discovery isn't the fatal problem, the fatal
> problem is that encrypted email is unusable once received and
> stored.

To my mind that's a presentation layer issue.  Once that message
lands in my MUA it's up to me how I want to store it.  If I chose
to keep my local copy unencrypted, so be it.  Since I use MH,
building such a filter is trivial, and I've done it for OpenPGP
messages many times (I keep losing the damn script when I move
servers).

For an IMAP store things get a bit tricker.  It would need a protocol
extention that allowed for on-the-fly decryption.

And if you're a Plan 9 user, it's a simple matter of writing a
decrypting file server :-)

Point being, the software to do this doesn't have to be incredibly
difficult.  But this is out of scope for the current discussion.

--lyndon