IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reputation (was Re: Service outages planned for April 25)

John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> Thu, 28 April 2022 22:14 UTC

Return-Path: <johnl@iecc.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C443CC15E40B for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 15:14:00 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.452
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.452 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (2048-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=iecc.com header.b=XFSLUSEI; dkim=fail (2048-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=taugh.com header.b=cdzUR87j
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZBRFy1ZucD-h for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 15:13:55 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9F652C159527 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Apr 2022 15:13:55 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (qmail 61536 invoked by uid 100); 28 Apr 2022 22:13:53 -0000
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 22:13:53 -0000
Message-ID: <t4f3j1$1mpc$1@gal.iecc.com>
From: John Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
To: ietf@ietf.org
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:cleverness; s=f058.626b11a1.k2204; i=news@user.iecc.com; bh=pNDTsPtp4GqvTwMkKOK4n5HzUfYrbMlhDga4su4hlIQ=; b=XFSLUSEI/IEsR6o6oRKIdmGKp1T7IV28JOG6YFJNHbmfN6n6XxQ/zbIo4Dblp3YIsORSPEfMrcg8dmbaH7GaIuDhjbhIslYDfamrNKSsk2nlmKwP1QyIpl+170oMqjOaP4YOda/3K6GIfBSoIiP8Hhxb+n7n/vdyKsLDJ7ibaZe0EvFPam+mCcdO2/ZuzVM2ZL82L2aOietYVs9Hnt2ZVagylAAi5BHMZkwjd80/ZB0SCgXA4goubQAh9Zy2NzIVxt4Yhgy0aLe/UK+Unz42yce8/Nd4szdH8MLoMXtgwYbqW/elRk6PiA4aFVkUrl6d4ez5EwIkiYPcPjgTqfouNg==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:cleverness; s=f058.626b11a1.k2204; olt=news@user.iecc.com; bh=pNDTsPtp4GqvTwMkKOK4n5HzUfYrbMlhDga4su4hlIQ=; b=cdzUR87jc4kVSlds/tQLJWlqMDcqwBjJYWg2xJHb4470aSu6z5ZM85fs7xK/GRnkOKC/KcAhcspl+SpFBhEjaYO6kMlm4sbfWUWbA9FwkL+PBSM5uQi4oa/fcVqQgLOdtA2+qj7PNrRh7iiS+lx/iUreZgmGf+chxn+8MtL8z8oeY3gCwTlOAeVSwTvrdvWqkr8AR9UqfQzJ802s7ApOvy0h4Ly5/gUsbVSkW+v0p/SiHaQbokZDNM09D8LswajsJTI/HDE2jmGZ897KjLLwX6pxXwdWL3TBVnfzhqcbu3ETil7PNViRJFvoU6oBIkDTz9LewtQoDSytsEYPGhQ68g==
Subject: Re: the introduction problem, was Email and reputation (was Re: Service outages planned for April 25)
Organization: Taughannock Networks
References: <dcc27c29-51f8-c2a4-8ce4-ee1a3c6cb017@nostrum.com> <AAE3C51B-0150-483C-8244-3D60BC31B19A@tzi.org> <2c5df733-0f86-d319-b886-81882328caa9@network-heretics.com> <1870005490.14504.1651151102962@appsuite-gw1.open-xchange.com>
In-Reply-To: <dcc27c29-51f8-c2a4-8ce4-ee1a3c6cb017@nostrum.com> <AAE3C51B-0150-483C-8244-3D60BC31B19A@tzi.org> <2c5df733-0f86-d319-b886-81882328caa9@network-heretics.com> <1870005490.14504.1651151102962@appsuite-gw1.open-xchange.com>
Cleverness: some
X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test77 (Sep 1, 2010)
Originator: johnl@iecc.com (John Levine)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/QzZo19siIpNRV8hcT8_rxCBXTpg>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 22:14:00 -0000

According to Vittorio Bertola  <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com>:
>I see this as one of the many manifestations of possibly the biggest shortcoming in the original design of the Internet's architecture, i.e. not having an
>"identity layer" taking care of user authentication and information sharing in a uniform way below all application protocols

While that might be useful for other reasons, it wouldn't solve the
spam problem. It just replaces the spam problem with the introduction
problem, with a side helping of the identity theft problem. There is
no reason to believe those are easier than the spam problem.

R's,
John

PS: Please don't say e-postage.
-- 
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email