Re: the race to the bottom problem

Nick Hilliard <nick@foobar.org> Sat, 07 November 2020 23:24 UTC

Return-Path: <nick@foobar.org>
X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8DFF3A0DA1 for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 7 Nov 2020 15:24:33 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.901
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hUBg8sUFrtek for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 7 Nov 2020 15:24:32 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail.netability.ie (mail.netability.ie [46.182.8.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2FC633A0D9C for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Sat, 7 Nov 2020 15:24:29 -0800 (PST)
X-Envelope-To: ipv6@ietf.org
Received: from crumpet.local (admin.ibn.ie [46.182.8.8]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.netability.ie (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 0A7NOODM041279 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 7 Nov 2020 23:24:24 GMT (envelope-from nick@foobar.org)
X-Authentication-Warning: cheesecake.ibn.ie: Host admin.ibn.ie [46.182.8.8] claimed to be crumpet.local
Subject: Re: the race to the bottom problem
To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Cc: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org>, Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "Mudric, Dusan" <dmudric=40ciena.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
References: <60a15726-ff04-a202-4df9-79a6c6f33540@foobar.org> <99B762B0-0370-4B5B-9075-F688284D614A@fugue.com>
From: Nick Hilliard <nick@foobar.org>
Message-ID: <190c5cf3-9034-4e38-235c-620ecd916750@foobar.org>
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2020 23:24:23 +0000
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 PostboxApp/7.0.36
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <99B762B0-0370-4B5B-9075-F688284D614A@fugue.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/hc09HXvrifeRJZFR7srRdjUdtDw>
X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2020 23:24:34 -0000

Ted Lemon wrote on 07/11/2020 23:16:
> Read the whole thread, please, Nick.

this is the problem: I did read it, just like I've read through all the 
other threads on this topic over the last several years. There was a 
repeat of the usual speculation, generalisation and echo-chamber 
mechanics which have characterised this discussion at the ietf since 
more-or-less forever.

You said: "we’ve already seen clear pressure to race to the bottom".

So I politely ask you again: please provide citations to data.  Then we 
can have a discussion.

Nick