Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00 FYI quarter-, half- and full-rate comments
John Kenney <jkenney@us.toyota-itc.com> Fri, 10 February 2017 17:13 UTC
Return-Path: <jkenney@us.toyota-itc.com>
X-Original-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: its@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA473127058 for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 09:13:50 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.6
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=us-toyota-itc-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XLVwN5WtEE6q for <its@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 09:13:45 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-oi0-x22e.google.com (mail-oi0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4DD1A129A4B for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 09:13:45 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-oi0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id j15so24342234oih.2 for <its@ietf.org>; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 09:13:45 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=us-toyota-itc-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=GFLUfDLaRf10ka+zcnLB/ys+Ov5hsVnoXUktr7E4EZM=; b=MX3CsGOZu4VGCE1XPw7zvSeOdLrzEcbXvOU3vXgqrTKFk60dCOl7n89m4lDNV99x7M 4qNFdwAbZfZEaRSctHZnHEwcA0YeXQ2UP0Vxhc2J9859JwdMwZucHaKc9F9qga5GN91M O1xFVPpfa8yRmYTSJ8SaiPghI3WtP2dJA62Ou7wqpmI0erfVTBY9mKXeIiI1mCSUZb4V /RFygvQ/vGdhtu9FE7Nk/QQnBS2z36Lg14Qr+5P/JiyyAt4ycoISmcoeGxCOE+fDfq0o CN/c/6+iMvYdB9vIIkLZwcFm4k6MttzJyrZHDhCMDMlpbF8Ou/HhWyE8M/99kOUx7d/9 fLCw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=GFLUfDLaRf10ka+zcnLB/ys+Ov5hsVnoXUktr7E4EZM=; b=e05LBU0YROeBQ98nFqmv/SsJF1o5mqHD4vfx6hqGcTZfyeDhXOuFtkLOxH/OUhGglG ibAtX5s3hRpK6amc1ERx0OfyNG9c1L6f9ftElOU0ZmSxQ8A8cvw7hyWyIhBqi+5dRhs+ 0iwOmp97JXyjDyLhwqj1GomGrKwwz7CKxAnyJFy4lvYWvCykwBHTEjnHU5DrgCQ2v9f8 Z3sXuCroG3iexnk9jm6nnJP62jomt2FRyQS2RROzH6ikR+DABZSi56+nTBn/lvyjCEN9 MJsKqXent+xUfu49P6kr5kIpHNhazjhvyAcTjDIMpf+JupNViFOLPbZvmwxHjdMUOKXr RngA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39llZAWOX5l0TX7g8olFVVQreNnQWGaD+Vohm4Tk3WGkSwh9ChttPmZntbuLfqZ0E3/ECgzS54yhCzPlJxH8
X-Received: by 10.202.198.2 with SMTP id w2mr5711074oif.135.1486746824579; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 09:13:44 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.157.31.99 with HTTP; Fri, 10 Feb 2017 09:13:44 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <cb55c73e-9b38-687c-0a3c-037f706c5acf@gmail.com>
References: <148052970170.9607.12043916621198119260.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <cb55c73e-9b38-687c-0a3c-037f706c5acf@gmail.com>
From: John Kenney <jkenney@us.toyota-itc.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 09:13:44 -0800
Message-ID: <CAP6QOWQ_GEYux8_drfE7au4=VyAiD6DkM__BZQY2ZWSSkRWn+w@mail.gmail.com>
To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1135329659bea405483038ec"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/dKUTmPWObn2ucK5JFDjXyVETK4s>
Cc: "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00 FYI quarter-, half- and full-rate comments
X-BeenThere: its@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: IPWAVE - IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments WG at IETF <its.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/its/>
List-Post: <mailto:its@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its>, <mailto:its-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2017 17:13:50 -0000
FWIW, I find DSRC people don't often use this quarter-rate/half-rate terminology. We just refer to the bandwidth of the channel in absolute terms. What is called half rate is a 10 MHz channel. What is called quarter rate is a 5 MHz channel. Full rate is a 20 MHz channel. I find it less confusing to use 20/10/5 explicitly than full/half/quarter. It also makes sense give that 99% of the time we're only interested in the 10 MHz case. John On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 2:02 AM, Alexandre Petrescu < alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> wrote: > draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00 > FYI quarter-, half- and full-rate comments > > Hello IPWAVErs, > > We received an FYI commenting the quarter-, half- and full- data > rates of 802.11 OFDM. > > The old text being commented is the following: > >> 4. Aspects introduced by the OCB mode to 802.11 >> > [...] > >> o 'half-rate' encoding >> > [...] > >> o It is worth mentioning that more precise interpretations of the >> 'half-rate' term suggest that a maximum throughput be 27Mbit/s (which >> is half of 802.11g's 54Mbit/s), whereas 6Mbit/s or 12Mbit/s >> throughputs represent effects of further 802.11p-specific PHY >> reductions in the throughput necessary to better accommodate >> vehicle-class speeds and distance ranges. >> > > I will replace the above bullet points with this new text: > >> o 'quarter-rate' encoding: whereas 802.11 affords multiple >> combinations of distinct x-rate encodings, widths of spacing between >> channels and modulation techniques, the 802.11 operating outside the >> context of a Basic Service Set for Intelligent Transport Systems >> (ITS) mobile and non-mobile operations informally promotes the use of >> quarter-rate, 5 MHz channel spacing, modulation '64 QAM' with r == >> 3/4, leading to a maximum data rate of 13.5 Mbit/s. See details in >> section "x-rate encodings for 802.11". >> > > The new appendix section titled "x-rate encoding for 802.11": > >> Quick summary of 802.11 OFDM data rates: >> >> o Half-rate (10 MHz channel spacing) maximum data rate is 27 Mb/s – >> Modulation 64-QAM; r == 3/4; >> >> o Half-rate minimum data rate is 3 Mb/s – Modulation BPSK; r == 1/2 >> – >> Note this is a default and is mandatory by ALL 802.11 STAs. >> >> o Full-rate (20 MHz channel spacing) the maximum data rate is 54 >> Mb/s; 64-QAM; r == 3/4; >> >> o Full-rate minimum data rate is 6 Mb/s – Modulation BPSK; r == 1/2; >> >> o Quarter-rate (5 MHz channel spacing) maximum data rate is 13.5 >> Mb/s >> – Modulation 64-QAM; r == 3/4; >> >> o Quarter-rate minimum data rate is 1.5 Mb/s – Modulation BPSK; r == >> 1/2. >> >> Note: Per IEEE 802.11, the operating class 16 (5 MHz channel spacing) >> is defined for ITS_nonmobile_operations, ITS_mobile_operations. >> >> o 'Half-rate' encoding: as the frequency range, this parameter is >> related to PHY, and thus has not much impact on the interface between >> the IP layer and the MAC layer. The standard IEEE 802.11p uses OFDM >> encoding at PHY, as other non-b 802.11 variants do. This considers >> 20MHz encoding to be 'full-rate' encoding, as the earlier 20MHz >> encoding which is used extensively by 802.11b. In addition to the >> full-rate encoding, the OFDM rates also involve 5MHz and 10MHz. The >> 10MHz encoding is named 'half-rate'. The encoding dictates the >> bandwidth and latency characteristics that can be afforded by the >> higher-layer applications of IP communications. The half-rate means >> that each symbol takes twice the time to be transmitted; for this to >> work, all 802.11 software timer values are doubled. With this, in >> certain channels of the "5.9GHz" band, a maximum bandwidth of >> 12Mbit/s is possible, whereas in other "5.9GHz" channels a minimal >> bandwidth of 1Mbit/s may be used. It is worth mentioning the >> half-rate encoding is an optional feature characteristic of OFDM PHY >> (compared to 802.11b's full-rate 20MHz), used by 802.11a before >> 802.11p used it. In addition to the half-rate (10MHz) used by >> 802.11p in some channels, some other 802.11p channels may use >> full-rate (20MHz) or quarter-rate (5MHz) encoding instead. >> >> o It is worth mentioning that more precise interpretations of the >> 'half-rate' term suggest that a maximum throughput be 27Mbit/s >> (which is half of 802.11g's 54Mbit/s), whereas 6Mbit/s or 12Mbit/s >> throughputs represent effects of further 802.11p-specific PHY >> reductions in the throughput necessary to better accommodate >> vehicle-class speeds and distance ranges. >> > > > Alex > > _______________________________________________ > its mailing list > its@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its > -- John Kenney Director and Principal Researcher Toyota InfoTechnology Center, USA 465 Bernardo Avenue Mountain View, CA 94043 Tel: 650-694-4160. Mobile: 650-224-6644
- [its] I-D Action: draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80211p… internet-drafts
- Re: [its] I-D Action: draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [its] I-D Action: draft-petrescu-ipv6-over-80… Russ Housley
- [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00 … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Nabil BENAMAR
- [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00 … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Dr. Hans-Joachim Fischer
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Jérôme Härri
- [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00 … Alexandre Petrescu
- [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00 … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Jérôme Härri
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Dr. Hans-Joachim Fischer
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Dr. Hans-Joachim Fischer
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… François Simon
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Nabil BENAMAR
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… John Kenney
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Jerome Haerri
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Alexandre Petrescu
- [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00 … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Jerome Haerri
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Alexandre Petrescu
- [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00 … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Jérôme Härri
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Jérôme Härri
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Russ Housley
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… John Kenney
- [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00 … Alexandre Petrescu
- [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00 … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Jérôme Härri
- [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00 … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… François Simon
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… William Whyte
- [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00 … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Jérôme Härri
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Michelle Wetterwald
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Jérôme Härri
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… François Simon
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Rex Buddenberg
- [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00 … Alexandre Petrescu
- [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00 … Alexandre Petrescu
- [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00 … Alexandre Petrescu
- [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00 … Alexandre Petrescu
- [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00 … Alexandre Petrescu
- [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00 … Alexandre Petrescu
- [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00 … Alexandre Petrescu
- [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00 … Alexandre Petrescu
- [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00 … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Michelle Wetterwald
- [ipwave] ITS RDE and packet dumps Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Nabil Benamar
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Jérôme Härri
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Jérôme Härri
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Jérôme Härri
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Jérôme Härri
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Tony Li
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… William Whyte
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… William Whyte
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… John Kenney
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Rex Buddenberg
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… François Simon
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… William Whyte
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Jérôme Härri
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Jérôme Härri
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… William Whyte
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Alexandre Petrescu
- [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00 … Alexandre Petrescu
- [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00 … Alexandre Petrescu
- [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00 … Alexandre Petrescu
- [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00 … Alexandre Petrescu
- [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00 … Alexandre Petrescu
- [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00 … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Rex Buddenberg
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… John Kenney
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Dr. Hans-Joachim Fischer
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Dr. Hans-Joachim Fischer
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… José Santa Lozano
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Jérôme Härri
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… José Santa Lozano
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Jérôme Härri
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… François Simon
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Jérôme Härri
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Dr. Hans-Joachim Fischer
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… François Simon
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Jérôme Härri
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… François Simon
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… José Santa Lozano
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Michelle Wetterwald
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… José Santa Lozano
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… François Simon
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Alexandre Petrescu
- [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-00 … Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [ipwave] draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb… Alexandre Petrescu