Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Internet resilience

"Ciavaglia, Laurent (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay)" <laurent.ciavaglia@nokia.com> Tue, 24 December 2019 10:14 UTC

Return-Path: <laurent.ciavaglia@nokia.com>
X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB19C120D25 for <architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 24 Dec 2019 02:14:54 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.901
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pHmgZY-_nfo9 for <architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 24 Dec 2019 02:14:53 -0800 (PST)
Received: from FRA01-PR2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr120122.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.12.122]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BBB4012012E for <architecture-discuss@iab.org>; Tue, 24 Dec 2019 02:14:52 -0800 (PST)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=WwRfYwjhN9lRaybvbCp0JJlcMA4Y9O1fqnnTaiG4kUrxcWA54hTqt1DC5TbARiDr9ptCn/Vm8ty0WAW2QcjslJXswBFwwe9+/li1rGVCzef1dHfTVX0qcrzMHubzpIQh7tYBGpVpZznAS52IJX+d3axjgtTl9Ij3EybaJpfUty5y7SJINni7jzoG19qfhp1uY7sWPXTtM/g/9AexWSBqcmnKgyG9qVgh+4VcmRBQbSgvD/7n9BQkYFXKTvwrsEjk3fO81QZhsbQMKYXJNO36CJG+UOhMzcSVNPCfGpbIKDHe380AuKFN+E9OxUOJti5U5dsOgaO8ylRlLLJctG2J9g==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=B4FmE3emJtewVAUsDVE0/M+BO5tk8BMgdjqvB3Ia3Tc=; b=l43u39shPdRgbhEc3vGKUQWKbkWaA3VweiBOpcffCyO+Q8pHKSVMX15NeAwKNwE/VAEZx4Vi/p93nrVN/nMhxXwycZfBMULP8rLcSP8oQQsPTpxgyBvtTqgtMgCEfH0g9Ef8gFzJBkeE445dY7ar/Gvrq7ZOQ8SFdPDOP/PA2Utw3GsIuvz42hHFpEXt6/8dZ/gSGftSZ6kYcDG08EFe9FmqhBn/IT6VTlJR+H3f5vnaBlE5RtuDdHUO2YK8Yikx7MaAFPmhp7823LyBNv8sA5N3aLAV3wQvDPHKixFkqcBSEfs+H23kviL9aJktVyxQmVBi6kbZsu397aoMienOYA==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=nokia.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=nokia.com; dkim=pass header.d=nokia.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-nokia-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=B4FmE3emJtewVAUsDVE0/M+BO5tk8BMgdjqvB3Ia3Tc=; b=ekUwfSxlyyjGsq6SK3sFBRzAS/N+GDGtbktf1XSWUnNYJe+Y+Z1v13ijBmVvsD4a0ugLD93k2kVBeDyvxb/FVxObBi0AZbHBAdK0949bDTbx7Z1Z02WOGjzMWJSG1+bVHMs+2ZABXFyyfi0cJCtVSrGRuWh3EFjBo0TdumoE0hw=
Received: from PR1PR07MB4891.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (20.177.208.146) by PR1PR07MB5017.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (20.177.211.29) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2581.10; Tue, 24 Dec 2019 10:14:50 +0000
Received: from PR1PR07MB4891.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::24dd:1dfc:4bf1:9b6c]) by PR1PR07MB4891.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::24dd:1dfc:4bf1:9b6c%7]) with mapi id 15.20.2581.007; Tue, 24 Dec 2019 10:14:50 +0000
From: "Ciavaglia, Laurent (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay)" <laurent.ciavaglia@nokia.com>
To: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>, "architecture-discuss@iab.org" <architecture-discuss@iab.org>
Thread-Topic: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Internet resilience
Thread-Index: AQHVtzoJxIFDgno3SEaDXNztK6/OrKfJFGQA
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2019 10:14:49 +0000
Message-ID: <PR1PR07MB48917E9FF390CAD61F399CC8F3290@PR1PR07MB4891.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <f13e1588-35e0-2493-93d2-add3480bb207@cs.tcd.ie>
In-Reply-To: <f13e1588-35e0-2493-93d2-add3480bb207@cs.tcd.ie>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=laurent.ciavaglia@nokia.com;
x-originating-ip: [176.130.37.253]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 28986dd5-d4c0-4915-d0d2-08d7885a1c63
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: PR1PR07MB5017:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <PR1PR07MB50174243B66E76EF911E5388F3290@PR1PR07MB5017.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000;
x-forefront-prvs: 0261CCEEDF
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(39860400002)(376002)(366004)(396003)(346002)(136003)(13464003)(189003)(199004)(2906002)(33656002)(110136005)(186003)(53546011)(478600001)(6506007)(26005)(5660300002)(52536014)(8936002)(7696005)(8676002)(81156014)(81166006)(71200400001)(64756008)(966005)(66574012)(86362001)(9686003)(66946007)(76116006)(55016002)(66476007)(316002)(66446008)(66556008)(296002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:PR1PR07MB5017; H:PR1PR07MB4891.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: nokia.com does not designate permitted sender hosts)
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 28986dd5-d4c0-4915-d0d2-08d7885a1c63
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Dec 2019 10:14:50.0342 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: AzTyjjFZeAliEahsQVyHBKkYdmi3v6PlilFFlMp7KNQOvxbEvs3Rqx9Ph4e+f+EiVjKfdpnxUQ7Vox+yBDSroaeE5W/Z3YfTRAotKScL8A8=
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: PR1PR07MB5017
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/architecture-discuss/iFQVe_1QdiT7JfQqxt9T_b3bp8w>
Subject: Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Internet resilience
X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues <architecture-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/architecture-discuss>, <mailto:architecture-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/architecture-discuss/>
List-Post: <mailto:architecture-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:architecture-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss>, <mailto:architecture-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2019 10:14:55 -0000

Hi Stephen, All,

I also support the initiative and think it's an interesting topic to investigate.

Extracts of comments made by Juergen Schoenwaelder some time ago in review of the NMRG work on intent-based-networking, which I think are relevant to the discussion.

From Juergen Schoenwaelder: 
" I believe we need to think about systems that have to react to stress and disturbance. There are different possible reactions:

  - robustness: the system is robust against certain stress, i.e., it
    won't react to the stress it gets exposed to

  - resilience: the system recovers from stress it got exposed to (if
    it recovers very fast, it may appear to be robust)

  - antifragile: the system "learns" from stress and increases its
    resilience and robustness

How do modern systems that provide services 24/7 work? Well, you have people and systems constantly damaging them and they have to "learn" how to deal with the constant influx of damage. (And learn maybe to a large extend human assisted.) The main point here is to recognize that the primary service setup is usually not the issue, the handling of stress (failures and attacks) is what decides about long-term efficiency and stability of a service (and where likely a big human operational cost item is located). "

I think references from Organic Computing and Autonomic Computing/Networking literature could be valuable e.g. for self-organizing, self-healing systems.

Would be happy to contribute and provide inputs.

Best regards, Laurent. 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Architecture-discuss <architecture-discuss-bounces@ietf.org> On
> Behalf Of Stephen Farrell
> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 14:33
> To: architecture-discuss@iab.org
> Subject: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Internet resilience
> 
> 
> Hiya,
> 
> The IAB are considering starting up a programme on Internet
> resilience as described at [1]. We'd love to get feedback
> on that idea, the text at [1] and to find out if people
> would like to participate and what topics you might suggest
> be considered (or even better, what you'd actually do work
> on yourself:-).
> 
> There's no specific deadline for this, but the IAB will
> consider this further in the new year, so if you could
> take a few minutes to share your thoughts on this before
> or over the holidays that'd be great.
> 
> Thanks,
> S.
> 
> 
> [1] https://github.com/intarchboard/resilience/