Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Internet resilience

tony.li@tony.li Sat, 28 December 2019 19:06 UTC

Return-Path: <tony1athome@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDE5A120105 for <architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 11:06:12 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.399
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GVOqAhh54Bov for <architecture-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 11:06:11 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-pl1-x630.google.com (mail-pl1-x630.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::630]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4272612007A for <architecture-discuss@iab.org>; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 11:06:11 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-pl1-x630.google.com with SMTP id az3so13039944plb.11 for <architecture-discuss@iab.org>; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 11:06:11 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=XASk97zyqg3b0GmFbQZyTh++gNw9hvbx1uVABPy54W0=; b=CtzlunoRaJh2i3eIWhEMhm2VvQv8WoikBu+Lk4UTlYsAnTOkfkgh7QbxOc3MeT1lSN sXsjgMyW2byG3P2IBxDCPHYpUAY7Ijs9EZoLUqCkEXCWD1uVs1atJkmhEB9PY1/izPZg qL1sv6WE/4GnkZnD1+Ne7LKcJ25re6XX9vFQdZxwIHXELlZcjef9r4LuXzcXiNv9fksO HFy9u9HqDfMNe6Uh7Fpuu04PllzurGYMQav8vckonip/+tl9cb6dWdL2pLbE+o2jal8J M/h70Wv4W+W7paPWjM9SB7IfpQYEygfB9b2fJdCQrGriDqA30Ep+k0chch8LRHD9mYPi /QdA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=XASk97zyqg3b0GmFbQZyTh++gNw9hvbx1uVABPy54W0=; b=k1n94geztY/tze8ym7/n9GkSuXHpTPOATDyK82/mlPgkxxVbVwvDCUsTPdjFBMFxOV kYOBp8/VxfDZh53jaZFsHV8cr1RM8ZHbu7xXy/mIPTWtAvr03FBEzmu9JjJoF/41tx5Z 6zSithsfKbxFdRd4MyPxitjOhZaMuudQGA2+Yq8XhZ7i0sxhe3NjJedC+8oJ3aw1Knsg 64WjL+laFteK1mGPY6F1eBGQvsSkjljAr0s+T1ZTDxBVgwPFbyZWXo0gfu/6/k0AWF/D O6VNDjQZoy+x2TH62KRMR+/L5FMSjcZAZyPh+pbXJkWZmcXD4r2WpR3fF25PE1s4EnC7 t6FA==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVT4Tm2BgPFZOBIsSMbVRvXF8bwDYD/Pmgs2ALkQ7vulhcw6c0K IQ/4+Vy3hzwrA2/nw9vavSw=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxRbBS8FEHM93XccTPBe0feuQTV3dZ/Ns5GzEpYGqqfGp9dY2yAvX+cZdXBmQMgzdkGOkPSQA==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:1115:: with SMTP id gi21mr34754953pjb.95.1577559970670; Sat, 28 Dec 2019 11:06:10 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [192.168.4.24] (c-67-169-103-239.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [67.169.103.239]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b22sm42617748pft.110.2019.12.28.11.06.09 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 28 Dec 2019 11:06:09 -0800 (PST)
Sender: Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com>
From: tony.li@tony.li
Message-Id: <2CA4CBDC-CAB0-4E02-BC4C-40DF67FB64BC@tony.li>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_4831AB43-751F-4417-BBEE-4E0D32227454"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\))
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2019 11:06:08 -0800
In-Reply-To: <LO2P265MB0573E1B462A3804525BB2646C2250@LO2P265MB0573.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Cc: S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com>, "architecture-discuss@iab.org" <architecture-discuss@iab.org>
To: Andrew Campling <andrew.campling@419.consulting>
References: <f13e1588-35e0-2493-93d2-add3480bb207@cs.tcd.ie> <1127343564.5806.1577112317584@appsuite-gw1.open-xchange.com> <ebcca2be-6839-8f43-d74f-0e863e32cd2d@cs.tcd.ie> <2068147434.6516.1577178675917@appsuite-gw1.open-xchange.com> <LO2P265MB05733E4BD5A72EDEF96D3DE2C2290@LO2P265MB0573.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM> <6.2.5.6.2.20191227130815.120fc690@elandnews.com> <LO2P265MB0573E1B462A3804525BB2646C2250@LO2P265MB0573.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/architecture-discuss/zgou_-KG87wxMqE4aDpyRGFkknI>
Subject: Re: [arch-d] possible new IAB programme on Internet resilience
X-BeenThere: architecture-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues <architecture-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/architecture-discuss>, <mailto:architecture-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/architecture-discuss/>
List-Post: <mailto:architecture-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:architecture-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/architecture-discuss>, <mailto:architecture-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2019 19:06:13 -0000

> To clarify, I am not advocating that the IAB or IETF addresses policy considerations, quite the reverse: I believe that policy considerations would be better addressed elsewhere and that the technical requirements arising from these are subsequently addressed by the IETF and other bodies as appropriate.  The present situation, where the IETF maintains that it does not address policy considerations but, lacking guidance from a properly constituted and qualified body, nevertheless makes technical decisions that are based on inferred policy positions is unsatisfactory.  


Policy is just another means for some small group of people to tell other people what to do. We reject that at its very basis. We do not want policy. We want cooperation.

The Internet works because we propose things and reach rough consensus on them. Those who feel that it’s a Good Idea try it out. It gets tweaked. Others feel that it’s a Good Idea and join in. Or not. Only when enough people participate does it become effective.

We do not need people to try to set policy. They are not welcome. If a group is constituted to form policy, we will not follow it.

We do need Good Ideas. Folks who have them are welcome to propose them.

Tony