Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "homenet-dot"

Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org> Thu, 15 December 2016 20:21 UTC

Return-Path: <marka@isc.org>
X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80B7D12954C; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 12:21:26 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -9.797
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.797 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-2.896, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ML6ECWVcIznJ; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 12:21:25 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mx.pao1.isc.org (mx.pao1.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:0:2::2b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE59C129C07; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 12:21:17 -0800 (PST)
Received: from zmx1.isc.org (zmx1.isc.org [149.20.0.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx.pao1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D0D9E3493BC; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 20:21:15 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from zmx1.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zmx1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BB51816003D; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 20:21:15 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zmx1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A67B4160074; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 20:21:15 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from zmx1.isc.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zmx1.isc.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id amEvhHDjqvRU; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 20:21:15 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from rock.dv.isc.org (c27-253-115-14.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au [27.253.115.14]) by zmx1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 22B1A16003D; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 20:21:15 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from rock.dv.isc.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by rock.dv.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0E6F5CF0232; Fri, 16 Dec 2016 07:21:11 +1100 (EST)
To: james woodyatt <jhw@google.com>
From: Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org>
References: <20161214220428.1688.qmail@ary.lan> <9EC2695D-5CC5-479F-9998-27810608E71E@fugue.com> <CAH1iCioPZiO78j478BV7t=pTN9LZXQbweeBZQF2w3O1gKwx3XA@mail.gmail.com> <20161215011803.A2B705CE7CAA@rock.dv.isc.org> <CAH1iCir6R=DG+RM1BoMn1s31x3ZoN4bHLO7dWdVL-yCD3u3R0A@mail.gmail.com> <CAPt1N1=Mw=LSQ+dwFX2MFKTzSHMzWKAMLrW9fQPaAggMb+GJ-A@mail.gmail.com> <CAH1iCirFZtCWVkMqFp8Fb=wJLzmBNb2k5PfxKBRNUtgVR7cMXA@mail.gmail.com> <CAPt1N1nHmrRwAGGJCTwD=PhW1w=QHHSnvi1D3GN4kNxHSgapEA@mail.gmail.com> <20161215041912.32A8F5CE9152@rock.dv.isc.org> <CAPt1N1mwoGDuc8fn7mFd0R3cx_xQLBM3H=ye9L+ceE6kvUo-mQ@mail.gmail.com> <4195DBA6-6EAE-45CE-AD61-9236C62124D0@google.com>
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 15 Dec 2016 12:10:09 -0800." <4195DBA6-6EAE-45CE-AD61-9236C62124D0@google.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2016 07:21:11 +1100
Message-Id: <20161215202111.B0E6F5CF0232@rock.dv.isc.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dnsop/YQJg4mtKkcSXysun7q39I4Lm31Y>
Cc: Brian Dickson <brian.peter.dickson@gmail.com>, "dnsop@ietf.org WG" <dnsop@ietf.org>, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>, Michael StJohns <msj@nthpermutation.com>, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com>, HOMENET <homenet@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "homenet-dot"
X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list <dnsop.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dnsop/>
List-Post: <mailto:dnsop@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 20:21:26 -0000

In message <4195DBA6-6EAE-45CE-AD61-9236C62124D0@google.com>, james woodyatt wr
ites:
> 
> On Dec 15, 2016, at 06:35, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> wrote:
> > [Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org> wrote:]
> > Why shouldn't a iterative resolver work if we can make it work?
> >
> > Putting an iterative resolver in a stub resolver is an attack on the
> > DNS infrastructure.   If you are doing it because you are testing some
> > theory in an experimental jig, that's perfectly fine; in that case, you
> > are a consenting adult, and can configure it with a special delegation
> > for .homenet if you need that to work.   If you are adding it to
> > production code that will be installed in a billion devices, you are a
> > vandal.
>
> I doubt any sane home gateway vendor would do this even if the DNS
> infrastructure were robust enough to handle it (which, hey— I thought it
> was supposed to be, why isn’t it?). The reason is that too many ISPs
> insist on enhancing the content of the public DNS with their own private
> horizon stuff, so that additional services they bundle to their customers
> will work only on their own networks. Competition! Oh and that’s before I
> mention the extra featurefulness that many content delivery networks are
> still using for selecting servers based on the source address of the
> iterative DNS query instead of something more meaningful.

Too many people are already use third party DNS servers (Google
etc.) for ISPs to get away with this garbage anymore.  Iterative
resolvers in the CPE router just work.

The issue is more about iterative resolvers not in the CPE router.

Mark

> --james woodyatt <jhw@google.com <mailto:jhw@google.com>>

-- 
Mark Andrews, ISC
1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742                 INTERNET: marka@isc.org