Re: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homenet-dot"
Andrew Sullivan <ajs@anvilwalrusden.com> Thu, 15 December 2016 18:23 UTC
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Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 13:22:59 -0500
From: Andrew Sullivan <ajs@anvilwalrusden.com>
To: homenet@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homenet-dot"
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Dear colleagues, I have read draft-ietf-homenet-redact-01. I think it would be stronger if the ¶ "The RFC6761 process … notices oversights of this sort." in section 1 were removed. I don't especially care, however. Also, in ¶1 of §1, "This document recomments the use of the '.home'…." reads as though the present document (i.e. the I-D itself) is making the recommendation. Perhaps "That document" instead would work, or "Said RFC", or something. I have also read draft-ietf-homenet-dot-00. I have some comments both large and small. In the large, I think the critical questions for the WG is whether the special name in question (1) needs to have a secure proof of non-existence in the global DNS and (2) needs to be a TLD. As far as I can tell, this is a name that is supposed to work in a site context using standard DNS resolution and protocols. If that is true, then there are two possibilities: 1. Proveable non-existence doesn't matter, because a homenet-aware resolver will already know that .homenet is a protocol switch and anything that isn't homenet-aware should fail. 2. Proveably insecure delegation is critical so that unmodified validating endpoints can use the homenet DNS. I think our charter tells us we're supposed to achieve (2). (1) is the case like .onion, where an endpoint that doesn't know it's doing onion routing is _supposed_ to fail. But we were supposed to be providing a site-local answer that still provided link-local-like experiences. So I think we have to do (2). If that's the case, then we need to ask for a provably insecure delegation. If such a delegation needs to be a TLD, then we have to ask not only for an entry in the special-names registry (which is under IETF control), but also an entry in the DNS root zone (which is not under IETF control). If it does not need to be a TLD, then we have other options open to us. If we ask for a provably insecure delegation from the root zone, then I think we need to be alert to the possibility that ICANN might not grant it, or might grant it under circumstances we don't like. The key thing here is that we are tramping in someone else's IANA operational space, so we become subject to their rules. I am very far from convinced that this needs a delegation from the root, so I would prefer a different name than .homenet. I think home.arpa. or mynet.arpa. or whatever would be good enough, but I'm aware some think "arpa" is a dangerous string. On the small stuff: In §1, "evidence indicates that '.home' queries frequently leak out and reach the root name servers [ICANN1] [ICANN2]", I don't think that's the issue. The issue is that home is a well-known, in use TLD (we know because of those queries), and the consequences of reusing it are therefore completely unknown. Best regards, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com
- [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homenet-dot" Ray Bellis
- Re: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homenet-dot" Ralph Droms
- Re: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homenet-dot" Ray Bellis
- Re: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homenet-dot" Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homenet-dot" Ralph Droms
- Re: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homenet-dot" Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homenet-dot" james woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homenet-dot" Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homenet-dot" Mark Andrews
- Re: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homenet-dot" james woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homenet-dot" Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homenet-dot" james woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homenet-dot" Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homenet-dot" Ralph Droms
- Re: [DNSOP] Fwd: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "… Steve Crocker
- Re: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homenet-dot" Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homenet-dot" Ralph Droms
- [DNSOP] Fwd: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "home… Suzanne Woolf
- Re: [DNSOP] Fwd: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Fwd: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "… Steve Crocker
- Re: [DNSOP] Fwd: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Steve Crocker
- Re: [DNSOP] Fwd: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "… Michael StJohns
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Ralph Droms
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Ray Bellis
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Steve Crocker
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Michael StJohns
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Fwd: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Ralph Droms
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Suzanne Woolf
- Re: [DNSOP] Fwd: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "… Jaap Akkerhuis
- Re: [DNSOP] Fwd: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Fwd: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "… Ray Bellis
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… John Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Jim Reid
- Re: [DNSOP] Fwd: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "… Jaap Akkerhuis
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Ray Bellis
- Re: [DNSOP] Fwd: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "… Ray Bellis
- Re: [DNSOP] Fwd: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] Fwd: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "… John Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] Fwd: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "… John Levine
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… John Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Ralph Droms
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Ray Bellis
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Brian Dickson
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Brian Dickson
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… John R Levine
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… John R Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… John R Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… George Michaelson
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Mark Andrews
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… John R Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… John R Levine
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… John Levine
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… John Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… John Levine
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Brian Dickson
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Brian Dickson
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Brian Dickson
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Brian Dickson
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… John R Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… John R Levine
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Mark Andrews
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Mark Andrews
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Jacques Latour
- Re: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homenet-dot" Jacques Latour
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Bob Harold
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Bob Harold
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Ray Bellis
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Ray Bellis
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Michael StJohns
- Re: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homenet-dot" Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homenet-dot" Suzanne Woolf
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Suzanne Woolf
- Re: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homenet-dot" Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Steve Crocker
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Steve Crocker
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… james woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… james woodyatt
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Mark Andrews
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Mark Andrews
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… John R Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… John R Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Ted Lemon
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] iterative vs. forwarder, wa… John R Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] iterative vs. forwarder, wa… John R Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Michael StJohns
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Jacques Latour
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Suzanne Woolf
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Suzanne Woolf
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] iterative vs. forwarder, wa… william manning
- Re: [homenet] [DNSOP] iterative vs. forwarder, wa… william manning
- Re: [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homenet-dot" Ray Bellis
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… william manning
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… william manning
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Ralf Weber
- [DNSOP] reducing the crap going to the root Jim Reid
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] Fwd: WGLC on "redact" and "… Shane Kerr
- Re: [DNSOP] reducing the crap going to the root Burkov Dmitry
- Re: [DNSOP] reducing the crap going to the root Jim Reid
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Jaap Akkerhuis
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] [homenet] WGLC on "redact" and "homen… Jaap Akkerhuis