Re: IETF in July
Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> Mon, 23 March 2020 17:49 UTC
Return-Path: <cabo@tzi.org>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D728E3A0D8A for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 23 Mar 2020 10:49:05 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.9
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RfuRLGZ1m2XA for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 23 Mar 2020 10:49:03 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4E3843A0DA7 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Mon, 23 Mar 2020 10:49:03 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.217.147] (p548DCD70.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.205.112]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 48mMM03f3PzyVT; Mon, 23 Mar 2020 18:49:00 +0100 (CET)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3608.60.0.2.5\))
Subject: Re: IETF in July
From: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
In-Reply-To: <8e16f641-08b0-8234-d9c5-f18637198369@comcast.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2020 18:48:59 +0100
Cc: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 606678539.6856689-29a4177fc37619059ce304c742905c51
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <AB8D558C-4210-4A58-9055-976EFE235409@tzi.org>
References: <DM6PR05MB63488A5D5D14D11CBF145CEBAEF50@DM6PR05MB6348.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <2E3DFE67-85D0-4259-85D5-09FF9A262B48@tzi.org> <B28C7981-1AF4-4299-AAA0-4ABA667D81B4@consulintel.es> <CAOj+MMHROy2UA7YUdRrTM240nQY4ykbYHtFME87FPznNDMdcUQ@mail.gmail.com> <0B0BBC48-1504-4847-85B1-36700873D78E@consulintel.es> <5134FD38-F675-4E81-8C57-1EBCBE475705@tzi.org> <37205051-dab1-d59e-5fb2-fbcef327302b@nostrum.com> <CAJc3aaMFdyYxeX_6bZCmOJ8q8KBaHYmV79N70O85dHZ3AWUcaA@mail.gmail.com> <50BB2CE9-DEFC-4269-8FDC-ACA708FC5BE5@gmail.com> <0E824A81-B9ED-485C-9183-84C17CECFD88@consulintel.es> <CA5E598A-4A07-4DDD-9D23-B1E85018B17D@gmail.com> <8e16f641-08b0-8234-d9c5-f18637198369@comcast.net>
To: Michael StJohns <mstjohns@comcast.net>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.60.0.2.5)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/01oVKnWk_ydvA8uxzbi-7-QglXk>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2020 17:49:23 -0000
On 2020-03-23, at 18:03, Michael StJohns <mstjohns@comcast.net> wrote: > > math Let’s assume that the “flatten the curve” logic will stay the dominant one. (Actually, let’s hope so, as there will be millions of deaths otherwise.) Germany has a population of ~ 80 millions. We have about 25000 ICU beds, maybe up to 35000 within a month or two. (I’m ignoring that there are other diseases, which I probably shouldn’t. I’m also ignoring that the personnel situation has been dire even before CoViD-19.) As an extremely rough estimation, 15 % of the infected population will need a hospital bed, for about 7 days each, most of it in intensive care. So that’s very roughly 1 ICU day per infected. We’ll need 50 million or so for herd immunity. Pushing these through the hospitals at 35000/day (dangerous! Better stay below that) will take 1400 days. This is an order of magnitude, so let’s just say 500 days, because we are optimistic, and the one ICU day per person statistic may be contaminated by undiagnosed infections. So we are talking about a year, not a month or a couple of weeks. We can’t really turn down isolation measures significantly while this is happening. If R0 does get a little better in summer (there are some reasons to believe that), we might keep 35000/day with a little less isolation, but will need to go back in autumn. Obviously, we will learn something over time, and we could get an order of magnitude better over that time (or find an outright cure). Or not. Hope is not a strategy. Adjust these numbers for lesser health care systems. You know who that would be. In summary, there are three scenarios: (1) miracle. We learn something very significant (effective cure, protection). Not plannable. (2) disaster. Millions die, but, hey, the survivors will see the sun again within a couple of months. (3) flatten the curve. A year or so, until we have a combination of herd immunity and a vaccine. I’m hoping for 1 and planning for 3. Organizing 3 will be the giant task for all of us now. Grüße, Carsten
- IETF in July Ron Bonica
- Re: IETF in July Jared Mauch
- Re: IETF in July Keith Moore
- Re: IETF in July Carsten Bormann
- Re: IETF in July Kathleen Moriarty
- Re: IETF in July Fred Baker
- Re: IETF in July Job Snijders
- Re: IETF in July Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: IETF in July Tim Wicinski
- Re: IETF in July JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF in July JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF in July Robert Raszuk
- Re: IETF in July Ole Jacobsen
- Re: IETF in July Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond
- Re: IETF in July JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF in July Fernando Gont
- Re: IETF in July Fernando Gont
- Re: IETF in July Carsten Bormann
- Re: IETF in July Adam Roach
- Re: IETF in July Victor Kuarsingh
- Re: IETF in July Stewart Bryant
- Re: IETF in July JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF in July Bob Hinden
- Re: IETF in July Fernando Gont
- Re: IETF in July JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF in July Michael StJohns
- Re: IETF in July Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: IETF in July Fernando Gont
- Re: IETF in July Carsten Bormann
- Re: IETF in July JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF in July JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF in July Adam Roach
- Re: IETF in July Fernando Gont
- Re: IETF in July Salz, Rich
- Re: IETF in July Michael Speer
- Re: IETF in July Alissa Cooper
- Re: IETF in July Michael Richardson
- Re: IETF in July Toerless Eckert
- Re: IETF in July Fernando Gont
- Re: IETF in July John Levine
- Re: IETF in July John C Klensin
- Re: IETF in July Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IETF in July Ross Finlayson
- Re: IETF in July Pete Resnick
- Re: IETF in July Toerless Eckert
- Re: IETF in July Toerless Eckert
- Re: IETF in July Toerless Eckert
- Re: IETF in July Randy Presuhn
- Re: IETF in July Fernando Gont
- Re: IETF in July Clint Chaplin
- Re: IETF in July Rich Kulawiec
- RE: IETF in July Maisonneuve, Julien (Nokia - FR/Paris-Saclay)
- Re: IETF in July Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: IETF in July Rich Kulawiec
- Re: IETF in July John Scudder
- Re: IETF in July Michael Richardson
- Re: IETF in July Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IETF in July Christer Holmberg
- Re: IETF in July Bajpai, Vaibhav