Re: Extending a /64

Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> Tue, 10 November 2020 02:09 UTC

Return-Path: <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA1493A1595 for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 18:09:43 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.899
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qI7B-9-Eg2m2 for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 18:09:41 -0800 (PST)
Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A09093A1594 for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 18:09:41 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD74638A5B; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 21:10:03 -0500 (EST)
Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id kBaoFWXyjNoY; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 21:10:03 -0500 (EST)
Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12DA438A56; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 21:10:03 -0500 (EST)
Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CE4C558; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 21:09:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
To: otroan@employees.org, 6man WG <ipv6@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Extending a /64
In-Reply-To: <005ECBB3-088B-4363-BB53-8D4AD25CA3D2@employees.org>
References: <005ECBB3-088B-4363-BB53-8D4AD25CA3D2@employees.org>
X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1
X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m<nPbLgmtKK-5dC@#:k
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg="pgp-sha512"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2020 21:09:39 -0500
Message-ID: <26731.1604974179@localhost>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/ZiON8kBFaBvEkG3kLbNdyFkplR8>
X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 02:09:44 -0000

otroan@employees.org wrote:
    > b1) steal the uplink /64 (64share)

I don't know this term "64share"
Is there a draft to go with this, or is it just what I wrote in another email?
(onlink=false, plus Proxy-ND)

I wrote draft-richardson-6man-cpe-provisioning in 2019 based upon discussion
earlier.  There are too many TBD.

A few people from 6man had said that they would help, but we were all too
busy, and then pandemic.   I expected to chatting it up at meeting this year
in person.

The concept was that if we can do a capabilities negotiation/announcement
early enough (such as in IP6CP for PPP links), then we can avoid putting the
single /64 on the PPP link, but instead route all of it to the device.

That solves 90% of the smartphone has nothing to share, and probably solves
90% of the fixed LTE mobile use cases.
Yes, any ISP clueful enough to implement this could also implement DHCPv6-PD,
and perhaps that's really the point: it a bit of bait and switch on the clueless.

    > f) P2P Ethernet. Hosts are not on the same physical link, so let's stop
    > pretending they are. A consequence of that is that links don't need
    > subnets. Only assign addresses to
    > hosts. draft-troan-6man-p2p-ethernet-00

In the WiFi WPA3 world, every device gets their own WEP keys, and they can
never communicate without going through (hairpin) the AP.
So, WiFi now is totally hub and spoke.  There are significant performance
savings if we stop pretending L2 multicast really works.

This is where we should go.
This is a BIG DEAL, even though conceptually it's quite simple.
We need to make sure that we are not pushing string here though.

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>   . o O ( IPv6 IøT consulting )
           Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide