Re: Extending a /64
David Farmer <farmer@umn.edu> Tue, 17 November 2020 02:55 UTC
Return-Path: <farmer@umn.edu>
X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 360CA3A18C4 for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 18:55:24 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.098
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=umn.edu
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E0v_lA4yBLTs for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 18:55:22 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mta-p5.oit.umn.edu (mta-p5.oit.umn.edu [134.84.196.205]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 752EE3A18C2 for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 18:55:22 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mta-p5.oit.umn.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CZrCY3ltkz9vYBR for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Tue, 17 Nov 2020 02:55:21 +0000 (UTC)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at umn.edu
Received: from mta-p5.oit.umn.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mta-p5.oit.umn.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UByQhswLAzDn for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 20:55:21 -0600 (CST)
Received: from mail-ed1-f69.google.com (mail-ed1-f69.google.com [209.85.208.69]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mta-p5.oit.umn.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CZrCY0XfMz9vYB1 for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 20:55:20 -0600 (CST)
DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mta-p5.oit.umn.edu 4CZrCY0XfMz9vYB1
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 mta-p5.oit.umn.edu 4CZrCY0XfMz9vYB1
Received: by mail-ed1-f69.google.com with SMTP id b68so9071990edf.9 for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 18:55:20 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=umn.edu; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=lWQhM73OItqIzKDIi4FOj5nr1zySH/q71WznZ5QXXAY=; b=hEUQj4vdJUUBsCubhIlWk5Q9yPD1G3czLEOywBFmdwIRrFPnAOm4UxN5g7/q8auzom dNOUOXaTaJ6yAmOtSp9t7taFFUWg0bluZwY2b4ARORS+V4SeycUMPqJs+EHkP5tV84Mv j0ppsSTgOeu35vlKv5fvU8meHFq93MDj5BqneFJDL1AWY+X3pyX5R1MVorKDOLmmAFVj cgPIly7qG4Ne6q8seCarlRC9KIM7QJICBC0GZ0pxJoqp/8cEf0txp/a4O5rUpTnAYarj eJji1ulQmAqTTlxfUyWBTYUbEwuV6upaPqoaJJmxNCljr+AzVuaayGxOv+lmeAcHS35p JK5w==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=lWQhM73OItqIzKDIi4FOj5nr1zySH/q71WznZ5QXXAY=; b=Q+utlAeq6PB7lG5bOoT1uThSrltxj/2xp7B89NaTnS2BwxSUjMPCwrXGw5LkBw9/s0 4Zcbv0ZuwJqssdzRjLBmxybxJSa9UOrrfGtcSouK5+yhxt3sYLdw8RgfNCXg04iy0/MM DW3DGP+ZFl7IZiXaUxnvezuIwUYQ6+4sC8sx3uKeFKywzA0M0mBrLmwbTHZC6gq2m5Rp 4l6dg9hOaJAvcAakhBNsGANU7sPT2f/Jg7RTAKKLsxZLSAHsKV4sLnf33LAZB4sdHynP S4qOTHmX7ilRWFdUpeqVESPYBBKPKct6RYo8yXogLMLQzPdl1zZMx7cA43rgkMzFaNZ+ UHcQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5312HpSuTv5DY2Si5XH0LKIq5C9pLDsV5pC2/LvsoarfbVo4+pBH 8NahORVxiCy2BnJ7lekQG9d521EnIeah+Rk9rZSZsv23IstL4KT2ayn/5tpjHIaYvPdZDrXF2e0 2ySCMYVzNpTlZ82GNH0T/NyoL
X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:a108:: with SMTP id t8mr17125014ejy.435.1605581719157; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 18:55:19 -0800 (PST)
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyKKMIQT6w77dTTCPe2nxS09/lZ5IzSqmYJ4uuonXleCgr4x1RByktr115My1FddEiRFfGrQz9hHT7oo088N1k=
X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:a108:: with SMTP id t8mr17125000ejy.435.1605581718760; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 18:55:18 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <202011151920.0AFJKN9U003337@mail2.mwassocs.co.uk> <3d26bffe-b6c9-4ed7-6135-a515f9902fd7@gmail.com> <m1keOTi-0000EGC@stereo.hq.phicoh.net> <CAO42Z2wZkXryhw1u5WAFdtCvXHyyz1zeM22FP_gRxjurjsG-Jw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAO42Z2wZkXryhw1u5WAFdtCvXHyyz1zeM22FP_gRxjurjsG-Jw@mail.gmail.com>
From: David Farmer <farmer@umn.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 20:55:02 -0600
Message-ID: <CAN-Dau2XTRJpR9S=ZXOXOD6PkxLTD7KAzN-CwoGhMUmSQTp0Zg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Extending a /64
To: Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com>
Cc: Philip Homburg <pch-ipv6-ietf-6@u-1.phicoh.com>, 6man WG <ipv6@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000001490305b444a0ec"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/d_FEhznlcQcAWGIFX1wZ2wk4-1U>
X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 02:55:24 -0000
On Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 2:56 PM Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Mon, 16 Nov 2020, 07:19 Philip Homburg, <pch-ipv6-ietf-6@u-1.phicoh.com> > wrote: > >> > Again, there are 35 trillion /48s in 2000::/3. How many would you >> > need? >> >> It gets tight when you want the prefix to contain 39 bits to number around >> half a million planes. >> > > Why are half a million planes going to be on the Internet? > Being on the Internet is not the only justification for the use of globally unique address space. You mention that airplanes can fall out of the sky, it would be really bad if an airplane every fell out of the sky, or collided with another airplane, because of an address conflict. The proper used globally unique registered address space makes such a conflict almost impossible. Where the use of ULA makes such addressing conflicts statistically possible, even if unlikely. With half a million aircraft and the potential consequences of an address conflict, the ULA random selection algorithm is probably not a good idea for this use case. Whether or not the addresses used in the control systems of aircraft are announced to the Internet, it seems completely justified to use globally unique address space to address them. Further, a single very large allocation something like a /16 or more to the international coordinating body for the aircraft industry, allowing them to make sub-allocations to aircraft operators, airport operators, navigational aid operators, etc... seems like a quite reasonable address management scheme to me. There are several ways to accomplish this; the IETF could make a special allocation, a global policy could be coordinated through the RIRs and the ICANN ASO, or the entity could approach one of the RIRs for an allocation directly. As a past member of the ARIN AC, I know for a fact that ARIN IPv6 policy explicitly contemplates LIRs that are not necessarily connected to the Internet, and contemplates generous initial allocations of up to a /16 for LIRs when justified. Further, ARIN uses a sparse allocation methodology, reserving at least an additional nibble of address space for future expansion. Honestly, given the importance of the use case discussed, I don't see the controversy, the allocation of a large address space allowing for the assignment of /48s or /56s to aircraft and /48 or larger to airports seems easily justified, and allocating it out of something other than 2000/3 seems quite reasonable as well, which would require IETF action. Further, the use of IIDs other than /64 is completely unnecessary. Thinking even more broadly it might not be a bad idea to allocate a whole new /4 for transportation automation to cover aircraft, cars, trucks, intelligent roadways, etc... Thanks -- =============================================== David Farmer Email:farmer@umn.edu Networking & Telecommunication Services Office of Information Technology University of Minnesota 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815 Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952 ===============================================
- Extending a /64 otroan
- Re: Extending a /64 Tony Whyman
- Re: Extending a /64 Philip Homburg
- Re: Extending a /64 Philip Homburg
- Re: Extending a /64 otroan
- Re: Extending a /64 otroan
- Re: Extending a /64 Mark Smith
- Re: Extending a /64 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Extending a /64 Tony Whyman
- Re: Extending a /64 Philip Homburg
- Re: Extending a /64 Ca By
- Re: Extending a /64 Tony Whyman
- Re: Extending a /64 Gyan Mishra
- Re: Extending a /64 otroan
- Re: Extending a /64 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Extending a /64 Manfredi (US), Albert E
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Extending a /64 Mark Smith
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Extending a /64 Manfredi (US), Albert E
- Re: Extending a /64 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Extending a /64 Gyan Mishra
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Extending a /64 Mark Smith
- Re: Extending a /64 otroan
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Extending a /64 otroan
- Re: Extending a /64 Philip Homburg
- Re: Extending a /64 otroan
- Re: Extending a /64 Philip Homburg
- Re: Extending a /64 otroan
- Re: Extending a /64 Philip Homburg
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Extending a /64 Gyan Mishra
- Re: Extending a /64 Michael Richardson
- Re: Extending a /64 Michael Richardson
- Re: Extending a /64 Michael Richardson
- Re: Extending a /64 Michael Richardson
- Re: Extending a /64 Michael Richardson
- Re: Extending a /64 Michael Richardson
- Re: Extending a /64 Michael Richardson
- Re: Extending a /64 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: Extending a /64 Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: Extending a /64 George Michaelson
- Re: Extending a /64 Gyan Mishra
- Re: Extending a /64 Gyan Mishra
- Re: Extending a /64 Christopher Morrow
- Re: Extending a /64 Mark Smith
- Re: Extending a /64 otroan
- Re: Extending a /64 Christopher Morrow
- Re: Extending a /64 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Extending a /64 Gyan Mishra
- Re: Extending a /64 Gyan Mishra
- Re: Extending a /64 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Extending a /64 Philip Homburg
- Re: Extending a /64 Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: Extending a /64 Philip Homburg
- Re: Extending a /64 Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: Extending a /64 Philip Homburg
- Re: Extending a /64 otroan
- Re: Extending a /64 Philip Homburg
- Re: Extending a /64 otroan
- Re: Extending a /64 Philip Homburg
- Re: Extending a /64 S Moonesamy
- Re: Extending a /64 Tony Whyman
- Re: Extending a /64 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Extending a /64 Philip Homburg
- Re: Extending a /64 Mark Smith
- Re: Extending a /64 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Extending a /64 Nick Hilliard
- Re: Extending a /64 Mark Smith
- Re: Extending a /64 Nick Hilliard
- Re: Extending a /64 Philip Homburg
- Re: Extending a /64 Gyan Mishra
- Re: Extending a /64 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Extending a /64 Michael Richardson
- Re: Extending a /64 Philip Homburg
- Re: Extending a /64 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Extending a /64 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Extending a /64 Manfredi (US), Albert E
- Re: Extending a /64 Gyan Mishra
- Re: Extending a /64 Philip Homburg
- Re: Extending a /64 Nick Hilliard
- Re: Extending a /64 Philip Homburg
- Re: Extending a /64 Tony Whyman
- Re: Extending a /64 Philip Homburg
- Re: Extending a /64 Nick Hilliard
- Re: Extending a /64 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: Extending a /64 Simon Hobson
- Re: Extending a /64 Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Extending a /64 Philip Homburg
- Re: Extending a /64 Tony Whyman
- Re: Extending a /64 Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Extending a /64 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Extending a /64 Alexandre Petrescu
- RE: Extending a /64 Da Silva, Saulo
- Re: Extending a /64 Philip Homburg
- Re: Extending a /64 Tony Whyman
- Re: Extending a /64 Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Extending a /64 Tony Whyman
- Re: Extending a /64 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Extending a /64 Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Extending a /64 Philip Homburg
- Re: Extending a /64 Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Extending a /64 Tony Whyman
- Re: Extending a /64 Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Extending a /64 Tony Whyman
- Re: Extending a /64 Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Extending a /64 Tony Whyman
- Re: Extending a /64 Tony Whyman
- RE: Extending a /64 Da Silva, Saulo
- Re: Extending a /64 Philip Homburg
- Re: Extending a /64 Mark Smith
- Re: Extending a /64 Mark Smith
- Why this is broken [was Re: Extending a /64] Brian E Carpenter
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Why this is broken [was Re: Extend… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Why this is broken [was Re: Extend… Matthew Petach
- Re: Why this is broken [was Re: Extending a /64] Tony Whyman
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Extending a /64 Manfredi (US), Albert E
- Re: Why this is broken [was Re: Extending a /64] Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Extending a /64 David Farmer
- Re: Extending a /64 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Extending a /64 (ATN/IPS worked example) Tony Whyman
- Re: Extending a /64 Tony Whyman
- Re: Why this is broken [was Re: Extending a /64] Tony Whyman
- Re: Extending a /64 (ATN/IPS worked example) Philip Homburg
- Re: Extending a /64 (ATN/IPS worked example) Tony Whyman
- Re: Extending a /64 David Farmer
- Re: Extending a /64 (ATN/IPS worked example) Philip Homburg
- Re: Extending a /64 Tony Whyman
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Why this is broken [was Re: Extend… Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Extending a /64 Simon Hobson
- Re: Cellphones in aircraft [was: Why this is brok… Simon Hobson
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Why this is broken [was Re: Extend… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Why this is broken [was Re: Extend… Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Extending a /64 Mark Smith
- Re: Extending a /64 (ATN/IPS worked example) Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Why this is broken [was Re: Extending a /64] Matthew Petach
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Why this is broken [was Re: Ex… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Extending a /64 (ATN/IPS worked example) Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Extending a /64 (ATN/IPS worked example) Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Extending a /64 (ATN/IPS worked example) Brian E Carpenter
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Extending a /64 (ATN/IPS worke… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Extending a /64 (ATN/IPS worked example) Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Extending a /64 (ATN/IPS worke… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Extending a /64 (ATN/IPS worked example) Brian E Carpenter
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Extending a /64 (ATN/IPS worke… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Extending a /64 (ATN/IPS worke… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Extending a /64 (ATN/IPS worke… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Extending a /64 (ATN/IPS worke… Manfredi (US), Albert E
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Extending a /64 (ATN/IPS worke… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Extending a /64 (ATN/IPS worke… Philip Homburg
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Extending a /64 (ATN/IPS worke… Manfredi (US), Albert E
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Extending a /64 (ATN/IPS worke… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Extending a /64 (ATN/IPS worke… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Extending a /64 Michael Richardson
- Re: Extending a /64 (ATN/IPS worked example) Michael Richardson
- Re: Extending a /64 (ATN/IPS worked example) Michael Richardson
- Re: Extending a /64 Michael Richardson
- Re: Extending a /64 (The most welcome comment) Tony Whyman
- Re: Why this is broken [was Re: Extending a /64] Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Extending a /64 (The most welcome comment) Brian E Carpenter
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Extending a /64 (The most welc… Manfredi (US), Albert E
- Re: Extending a /64 Michael Richardson
- Re: Extending a /64 (The most welcome comment) Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: Extending a /64 (The most welcome comment) Manfredi (US), Albert E
- Re: Extending a /64 (The most welcome comment) Brian E Carpenter
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Extending a /64 (The most welc… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Extending a /64 (The most welcome comment) David Farmer
- Re: Extending a /64 Michael Richardson
- Re: Why this is broken [was Re: Extending a /64] Michael Richardson
- Re: Extending a /64 Mark Smith
- Re: Extending a /64 Mark Smith
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Extending a /64 (The most welc… Tony Whyman
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Extending a /64 (The most welc… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Extending a /64 (The most welc… Tony Whyman
- Re: Extending a /64 Nick Hilliard
- Re: Extending a /64 Tony Whyman
- Re: Extending a /64 Tony Whyman
- Re: [**EXTERNAL**] Re: Extending a /64 Mudric, Dusan
- Re: [**EXTERNAL**] Re: Extending a /64 Tony Whyman
- Re: Extending a /64 Nick Hilliard
- Re: Extending a /64 (The most welcome comment) Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [**EXTERNAL**] Re: Extending a /64 tom petch
- Re: Extending a /64 Mark Smith
- Re: Extending a /64 Mark Smith
- Re: Extending a /64 Nick Hilliard
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Extending a /64 Manfredi (US), Albert E
- Re: Extending a /64 Mark Smith
- Re: Extending a /64 Philip Homburg
- Re: Extending a /64 Nick Hilliard