Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory
Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> Wed, 05 April 2017 23:39 UTC
Return-Path: <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
X-Original-To: mtgvenue@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: mtgvenue@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C57F1289C3 for <mtgvenue@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 5 Apr 2017 16:39:23 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.302
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.302 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cs.tcd.ie
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TLKnI3saJdYQ for <mtgvenue@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 5 Apr 2017 16:39:19 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9564A126FB3 for <mtgvenue@ietf.org>; Wed, 5 Apr 2017 16:39:18 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id B15EFBE74; Thu, 6 Apr 2017 00:39:16 +0100 (IST)
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie
Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bAqBzkfmH9XV; Thu, 6 Apr 2017 00:39:15 +0100 (IST)
Received: from [10.244.2.100] (95-45-153-252-dynamic.agg2.phb.bdt-fng.eircom.net [95.45.153.252]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1D7B6BE73; Thu, 6 Apr 2017 00:39:15 +0100 (IST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1491435555; bh=/kZLJHyiyaWA6zGF9DQJ96eo7Vz/531pxR05VWs2haQ=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=YU6hRIo36B1kykaFVaMEkUBYW2HDV71chIqAww4Dv+pdwuAyDvtRawcfEwPEroIio XYhKofKtomWtdNg4O39XPGXyv+a8MMS2DfvFsKkSZ/f5pQ1FNJ0FO+kLytdDb9wk1M l0AK9hRoucRroH/eGBsyTXSZomcnOPM/B91MQvDA=
To: Andrew Sullivan <ajs@anvilwalrusden.com>, mtgvenue@ietf.org
References: <37de22dc-04a4-f868-698e-cf03cd791957@cisco.com> <7add7c4a-032f-6b78-5b5f-861835a64f9a@dcrocker.net> <006325a5-83e7-9295-71a1-67c0125aa7cb@cisco.com> <c57adf52-3db7-5cfc-d301-3135010e17c6@cs.tcd.ie> <CA+9kkMA7iQrMg2y6g5=i96HL3-_8X04BsQjZEhzWe++uZzJvmQ@mail.gmail.com> <20170405201813.GF3439@mx4.yitter.info> <CAHw9_iLp_AbWRK7K+BHU5XuN3kYTsa3hazxRkhpOr2WFpm+PDw@mail.gmail.com> <20170405224355.GA4860@mx4.yitter.info>
From: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
Openpgp: id=D66EA7906F0B897FB2E97D582F3C8736805F8DA2; url=
Message-ID: <0e2a1fc2-924b-3b6b-1642-cd985f81d5b2@cs.tcd.ie>
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2017 00:39:13 +0100
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <20170405224355.GA4860@mx4.yitter.info>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha256"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="K1Mk6rv5aM0RCvkUueUKhloo7Vvj7GmSd"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mtgvenue/z5SubOd9s0DNJWv9o4FrM1JVrKw>
Subject: Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory
X-BeenThere: mtgvenue@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: "List for email discussion of the IAOC meeting venue selection process." <mtgvenue.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/mtgvenue>, <mailto:mtgvenue-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/mtgvenue/>
List-Post: <mailto:mtgvenue@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:mtgvenue-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mtgvenue>, <mailto:mtgvenue-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2017 23:39:23 -0000
On 05/04/17 23:43, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > This stance quite plainly empties the word "mandatory" of its meaning. > If you wish to remove the "mandatory" items and call them "Really > Sooper Genius Important" or something (to indicate that they're More > Important than the Important ones), I'm ok with that. But they're not > _mandatory_. +1, that class is not useful IMO, getting rid of it will help On the same point at 05/04/17 23:50, Dave Crocker wrote: > On 4/5/2017 3:43 PM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: >> If people instead want to have an ordered list of classes in >> descending order of importance, I can buy that as long as the first > > Each time you have put that model forward, I've pointed out the human > factors challenges of applying it. ISTM that the humans composing the total product that is this discussion are less varied and more predictable than the factors. (Yeah, sorry for that:-) Substantively: I don't find Dave's objection to eliminating the "mandatory" class of requirement even a teeny little bit convincing. A badly defined re-use of a term not matching its meaning in typical English usage is just not helping. S
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Lou Berger
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Lou Berger
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Fred Baker
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Eliot Lear
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Lou Berger
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Lou Berger
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Eliot Lear
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Pete Resnick
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Pete Resnick
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Lou Berger
- [Mtgvenue] Issue #21: unfiltered should be mandat… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Issue #21: unfiltered should be ma… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Issue #21: unfiltered should be ma… Yoav Nir
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Issue #21: unfiltered should be ma… Jim Martin
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Issue #21: unfiltered should be ma… Ted Hardie
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Issue #21: unfiltered should be ma… Fred Baker
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Issue #21: unfiltered should be ma… Tobias Gondrom
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Issue #21: unfiltered should be ma… Charles Eckel (eckelcu)
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Issue #21: unfiltered should be ma… Yoav Nir
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Issue #21: unfiltered should be ma… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Issue #21: unfiltered should be ma… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Issue #21: unfiltered should be ma… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Issue #21: unfiltered should be ma… Ted Hardie
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Issue #21: unfiltered should be ma… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: [Mtgvenue] Issue #21: unfiltered should be ma… Fred Baker
- [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Eliot Lear
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Lou Berger
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Eliot Lear
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Lou Berger
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Dave Crocker
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Eliot Lear
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Dave Crocker
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Pete Resnick
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Ted Hardie
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Dave Crocker
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Ted Hardie
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Eliot Lear
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Dave Crocker
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Warren Kumari
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Ted Hardie
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Lou Berger
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Pete Resnick
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Ted Hardie
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Lou Berger
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Pete Resnick
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Dave Crocker
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Dave Crocker
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Dave Crocker
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Pete Resnick
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Dave Crocker
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Eliot Lear
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Eliot Lear
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Alissa Cooper
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Alissa Cooper
- Re: [Mtgvenue] issue #3: Too many mandatory Fred Baker