Re: [dmarc-ietf] Call for Adoption: DMARC Use of the RFC5322.Sender Header Field

Dave Crocker <dhc@dcrocker.net> Tue, 29 September 2020 17:56 UTC

Return-Path: <dhc@dcrocker.net>
X-Original-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E8EA3A0F5E for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 29 Sep 2020 10:56:26 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.112
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.112 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.213, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id txucvIRn_SSR for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 29 Sep 2020 10:56:22 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from simon.songbird.com (simon.songbird.com [72.52.113.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2BD333A0F59 for <dmarc@ietf.org>; Tue, 29 Sep 2020 10:56:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.0.109] (c-24-130-62-181.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [24.130.62.181]) (authenticated bits=0) by simon.songbird.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-4.1ubuntu1.1) with ESMTP id 08THxRYd005607 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 29 Sep 2020 10:59:27 -0700
To: Alessandro Vesely <vesely@tana.it>, dmarc@ietf.org
References: <20200927171611.838B321D9BAD@ary.qy> <5069099.lO0Lvmlme3@zini-1880> <a4e016ba-673a-81f0-829b-b3b7adb6fcac@dcrocker.net> <5F73393D.4010805@isdg.net> <7afb25f6-c258-e92c-fdfe-10fe26ccecec@dcrocker.net> <ccfbbfb3-5e7f-3022-90be-c4a7e86c298a@tana.it>
Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net
From: Dave Crocker <dhc@dcrocker.net>
Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking
Message-ID: <593a1fd7-d869-58d6-76b9-e0dd03da87de@dcrocker.net>
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 10:56:14 -0700
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <ccfbbfb3-5e7f-3022-90be-c4a7e86c298a@tana.it>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmarc/3X--5h4finZxboLDmBLLjakeu8I>
Subject: Re: [dmarc-ietf] Call for Adoption: DMARC Use of the RFC5322.Sender Header Field
X-BeenThere: dmarc@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting, and Compliance \(DMARC\)" <dmarc.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dmarc/>
List-Post: <mailto:dmarc@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2020 17:56:26 -0000

On 9/29/2020 10:46 AM, Alessandro Vesely wrote:
> On Tue 29/Sep/2020 19:26:21 +0200 Dave Crocker wrote:
>> On 9/29/2020 6:40 AM, Hector Santos wrote:
>>> On 9/27/2020 11:44 PM, Dave Crocker wrote:
>>> DKIM has a single signature binding requirement, the 5322.From
>>>> DMARC establishes the relationship.
>>> I don't read it that way.
>>>
>>> DKIM binds the signer d= domain and the from.domain with no 
>>> enforcement on it nor any indication that they are related when they 
>>> not the same (the missing link). 
>>
>>
>> Absolutely not.  Please re-read the DKIM specification more 
>> carefully. It is quite explicit that it is doing not doing this.
>
>
> I think that by "binding" Hector meant this:
>
> 5.4.  Determine the Header Fields to Sign
>
>    The From header field MUST be signed (that is, included in the "h="
>    tag of the resulting DKIM-Signature header field).
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6376#section-3.4
>
> The spec doesn't say why, but obviously holds that the From: domain is 
> a specially meaningful one.  There are various other passages, for 
> example:


Sigh,  yes. It has caused this misunderstanding, from the start.

It was imposed on the working group by an IETF Area Director and was 
agreed to as an expedient.

But, sigh, no. It does not carry any of the semantic import being 
claimed in the current discussion.



d/

-- 
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net