Re: [dmarc-ietf] ARC usage, was Call for Adoption: DMARC Use of the RFC5322.Sender Header Field

John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> Tue, 06 October 2020 15:20 UTC

Return-Path: <johnl@iecc.com>
X-Original-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D8373A0B0B for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 6 Oct 2020 08:20:46 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.851
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.851 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=iecc.com header.b=FFsRmJRp; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=taugh.com header.b=L0hxv2ww
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k6Ng0FdNUpNj for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 6 Oct 2020 08:20:45 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BB8133A0B01 for <dmarc@ietf.org>; Tue, 6 Oct 2020 08:20:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (qmail 99625 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2020 15:20:42 -0000
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=18527.5f7c8b4a.k2010; bh=HTahy6FCAu6CKXV/l2HZhkPquU0WELIQVn5eUfsc7mw=; b=FFsRmJRp46/D6iHX1N5D82DneM/mmmKAgyFUCAKnZp1rC8A6o89ORFJ1eYSjwqUaK31Ic8IpfMmOU5xTa6A2Rbc7CAIo5CHSuG6KabITsJ6ev60urM1JY7xJFExvgkw7hFlw/DiGWnC9OxShUxBJ/3BUrKnE4WjHNH7/sMkk5zC6+Ghy38A/K7YbGUH++UposDF0Xwrk+NCNFhvAYpQ2U/14Jtap6q8bFCFIEqTd4HmDG6Vokr9xaO6gqPNgC+ScqOYwKkdn01eP2p3jQasTv0SAsRWgCY6GmD2BpALT+luewPU3GEGJ3vrfnOz65/Uqd5ZFl2OHYJNdcJ3aylOKUw==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=18527.5f7c8b4a.k2010; bh=HTahy6FCAu6CKXV/l2HZhkPquU0WELIQVn5eUfsc7mw=; b=L0hxv2wwrl4a6FidjTvck5LuG+In2bcIFSUXm8vCF9gNABlsVd0HwAlB9/izUOBzoorwaFKn05/1mhhH9YP/XTNB+77R/ihVhZoSExEh8jD4IAJ8vrG/uBATh8IqVgI040BNeV7DmMimPUQcWMcv13QhV6k8TaAXH2ZML6uumI9GXAZJ6+w+opG/jO33e3OXS3m89tZaBBS8sov4QfOTK7N+ev1kGG1afjV1JCODjm9oCqGHRqm7+xhw3ZYyjgK7uBCGQfj65aCkt6YoHyuwdHBSK/3RK8iEVs0iuybuQTdNkTGaH6USB+sC6sE0sJaL4RVS0ycn/Y+y3NJQgNUaow==
Received: from ary.qy ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPS (TLS1.2 ECDHE-RSA AES-256-GCM AEAD) via TCP6; 06 Oct 2020 15:20:42 -0000
Received: by ary.qy (Postfix, from userid 501) id 9A2BC23014C8; Tue, 6 Oct 2020 11:20:41 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2020 11:20:41 -0400
Message-Id: <20201006152041.9A2BC23014C8@ary.qy>
From: John Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
To: dmarc@ietf.org
Cc: vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com
In-Reply-To: <1265372281.9984.1601969016735@appsuite-gw1.open-xchange.com>
Organization: Taughannock Networks
X-Headerized: yes
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmarc/hgaLRuveUNqvbBSjGm770eqpx88>
Subject: Re: [dmarc-ietf] ARC usage, was Call for Adoption: DMARC Use of the RFC5322.Sender Header Field
X-BeenThere: dmarc@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting, and Compliance \(DMARC\)" <dmarc.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dmarc/>
List-Post: <mailto:dmarc@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2020 15:20:46 -0000

In article <1265372281.9984.1601969016735@appsuite-gw1.open-xchange.com> you write:
> It would be much better if there were a few professional/community efforts to build reliable and complete lists of good
> and bad ARC intermediaries, like for spam.

Having tried and failed to build a whitelist for Spamhaus, I can tell
you that it's hopeless.

The bar for ARC to be usable is pretty low. It's not "doesn't send
spam" or even "knows who its users are." It's only "doesn't lie about
where mail came from."  I expect that in practice the usual DNSBLs
will be good enough.

R's,
John