Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director

"Eggert, Lars" <lars@netapp.com> Mon, 04 March 2013 13:07 UTC

Return-Path: <lars@netapp.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A87521F89D2 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 4 Mar 2013 05:07:12 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -10.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tXfsiBQz4ywe for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 4 Mar 2013 05:07:12 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mx12.netapp.com (mx12.netapp.com [216.240.18.77]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24CE821F8942 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Mon, 4 Mar 2013 05:07:12 -0800 (PST)
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,779,1355126400"; d="scan'208";a="27712814"
Received: from smtp1.corp.netapp.com ([10.57.156.124]) by mx12-out.netapp.com with ESMTP; 04 Mar 2013 05:07:11 -0800
Received: from vmwexceht03-prd.hq.netapp.com (exchsmtp.hq.netapp.com [10.106.76.241]) by smtp1.corp.netapp.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/NTAP-1.6) with ESMTP id r24D7BI7022419; Mon, 4 Mar 2013 05:07:11 -0800 (PST)
Received: from SACEXCMBX01-PRD.hq.netapp.com ([169.254.2.54]) by vmwexceht03-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.76.241]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Mon, 4 Mar 2013 05:07:11 -0800
From: "Eggert, Lars" <lars@netapp.com>
To: Eric Burger <eburger@standardstrack.com>
Subject: Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director
Thread-Topic: Appointment of a Transport Area Director
Thread-Index: AQHOF8wB7OVu6NpwW0Cr3p/14P57w5iUHueAgAAXCoCAADhzgIAAAoAAgAACyQCAADcogIABNlIAgAAaAQCAAA24AA==
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2013 13:07:09 +0000
Message-ID: <D4D47BCFFE5A004F95D707546AC0D7E91F780D2F@SACEXCMBX01-PRD.hq.netapp.com>
References: <21B86E13-B8DA-4119-BBB1-B5EE6D2B5C1D@ietf.org> <51330179.3040500@gmail.com> <919840EE-BEC8-4F82-8D3C-B116698A4262@gmx.net> <1D88E6E9-33DE-4C4D-89F4-B0B762155D6F@standardstrack.com> <D4D47BCFFE5A004F95D707546AC0D7E91F77BA46@SACEXCMBX01-PRD.hq.netapp.com> <3CB8992B-212A-4776-95FE-71CA1E382FFF@standardstrack.com> <513376DB.7000200@dcrocker.net> <E22ACC99-B465-4769-8B59-BB98A7BA93DF@gmx.net> <79E77523-3D92-4CE9-8689-483D416794EF@standardstrack.com>
In-Reply-To: <79E77523-3D92-4CE9-8689-483D416794EF@standardstrack.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [10.106.53.51]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-ID: <B3C5753DC3DE8348981BE364135CE958@tahoe.netapp.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
Cc: IETF IETF <ietf@ietf.org>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2013 13:07:12 -0000

Hi,

On Mar 4, 2013, at 13:18, Eric Burger <eburger@standardstrack.com> wrote:
> I will say it again - the IETF is organized by us.  Therefore, this situation is created by us.  We have the power to fix it.  We have to want to fix it.  Saying there is nothing we can do because this is the way it is is the same as saying we do not WANT to fix it.

what is "the fix"?

The IETF is set up so that the top level leadership requires technical expertise. It is not only a management job. This is a key differentiator to other SDOs, and IMO it shows in the quality of the output we produce. The reason the RFCs are typically of very good quality is that the same eyeballs go over all documents before they go out. This creates a level of uniformity that is otherwise difficult to achieve. But it requires technical expertise on the top, and it requires a significant investment of time.

I don't see how we can maintain the quality of our output if we turn the AD position into a management job. Especially when technical expertise is delegated to bodies that rely on volunteers. Don't get me wrong, the work done in the various directorates is awesome, but it's often difficult to get them to apply a uniform measure when reviewing, and it's also difficult to get them to stick to deadlines. They're volunteers, after all. 

And, as Joel said earlier, unless we delegate the right to raise and clear discusses to the directorates as well, the AD still needs to be able to understand and defend a technical argument on behalf of a reviewer. If there is a controversy, the time for that involvement dwarfs the time needed for the initial review.

There is no easy fix. Well, maybe the WGs could stop wanting to publish so many documents...

Lars