Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered harmful

Jon Watte <jwatte@gmail.com> Mon, 30 March 2009 21:56 UTC

Return-Path: <jwatte@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: mmox@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: mmox@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFDF93A6B68 for <mmox@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 30 Mar 2009 14:56:43 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.544
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.544 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.055, BAYES_00=-2.599]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vZhJi2UFQoyB for <mmox@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 30 Mar 2009 14:56:43 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from rv-out-0506.google.com (rv-out-0506.google.com [209.85.198.234]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECB273A68D1 for <mmox@ietf.org>; Mon, 30 Mar 2009 14:56:42 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id k40so2226877rvb.49 for <mmox@ietf.org>; Mon, 30 Mar 2009 14:57:41 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=papub1L8yZLXga5YXC4slg5OWdpdUfs+xgrW51AG6F0=; b=sgzSwHOTCyxmuPlV7Tyu+BKYRrwqdNzoClUjGzeDGbLBKZaM41ZqgDsUHnkN6AI7cS EbUbCn6HuwiOvzJVpSf5PYZqV06KHmBXunTcpYwCtBSG3mZkVNPCjbBCrcXY6u+1n3/3 2lQvN0NzoqNL0tFINmc6Qm7EI+b9HUvlb38lA=
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Oa0J0XpijpxilGKMpzOjM77EUVsFJx3NR9Cnx0ME9Ob0/Bhx/qpCUAiujS8qakuNCY QQugcWnd4SbrLea2VOQhWFgWLNzmLVlZOpqExQFG9IUseItxEipGC7hUbnqtwVTehsUd eBcl54pWcP3AkcB3fGyr04CP780VoXYYX3ALE=
Received: by 10.114.199.3 with SMTP id w3mr3836353waf.181.1238450258934; Mon, 30 Mar 2009 14:57:38 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ?10.10.111.233? (smtp.forterrainc.com [208.64.184.34]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id m28sm10425033poh.11.2009.03.30.14.57.10 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 30 Mar 2009 14:57:32 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <49D1401E.5000905@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 14:56:46 -0700
From: Jon Watte <jwatte@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Windows/20090302)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: James Stallings II <james.stallings@gmail.com>
References: <e0b04bba0903250007k6886383bja0a06884e8081ac7@mail.gmail.com> <49CDC0BA.5070403@gmail.com> <f0b9e3410903280920o1e436337hb4c40a5b5f124876@mail.gmail.com> <49CE5BDC.5040808@gmail.com> <e0b04bba0903281057g943ce9cjdcce0fc2712a4ec3@mail.gmail.com> <49CF1B1E.4070506@gmail.com> <e0b04bba0903290138ifbfaf18p930f87d1e49e6dbb@mail.gmail.com> <49D0081E.4010007@gmail.com> <e0b04bba0903291942k69f6e970yee8b8a80dd8df2fa@mail.gmail.com> <49D0D846.5010401@gmail.com> <170fa1780903300854s34da03eaq8b3ed2f7eb9c2a62@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <170fa1780903300854s34da03eaq8b3ed2f7eb9c2a62@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Cc: MMOX-IETF <mmox@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered harmful
X-BeenThere: mmox@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Massively Multi-participant Online Games and Applications <mmox.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmox>, <mailto:mmox-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/mmox>
List-Post: <mailto:mmox@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:mmox-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmox>, <mailto:mmox-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:56:43 -0000

James Stallings II wrote:
> On what would seem to be the more mainstream topic of the use-case, I 
> think Jon left off perhaps the most fundamental interop capability of 
> all from his list: that of exchange of text communications ("chat") 
> between endusers.

I think those three things were Morgaines. My use cases are, as always, 
here:

http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jwatte-mmox-use-cases-00

The three capabilities I quoted from Morgaine's e-mail aren't use cases; 
they are possible capabilities. And, interestingly, those capabilities 
by themselves do not deliver any actual use case to the end user (as we 
agreed: necessary but not sufficient).

I suggest you read up on the five use cases listed in the above link. If 
there is something you think should be delivered before that, or instead 
of that, then please formulate them as actual end user use cases! (I've 
been asking for that for a while, to the point where it's starting to 
sound repetetive, yet there are no other use cases of record)


> I might also point out that this interop requires absolutely no 
> references to objects, worlds, primitives or render-specific technologies.


It does require a user-to-user text chat capability, which some of those 
virtual worlds that have evolved to be voice based don't actually have :-)

Sincerely,

jw