Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered harmful
"zedmaster" <zedmaster@zedrock.com> Fri, 27 March 2009 23:14 UTC
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Subject: Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered harmful
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As one of the developers of those VR systems in the early 90's, I would like to add that the work wasn't totally 'abortive', as (some of) those early VR systems continue to exist and operate today - they didnt bother with standardisation i.e. they found a niche and stuck at what they were good at !! -dirk > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 15:05:42 -0500 > From: "James Kempf" <james.kempf@ericsson.com> > Subject: Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered harmful > To: "Jon Watte" <jwatte@gmail.com>, "Morgaine" > <morgaine.dinova@googlemail.com> > Cc: MMOX-IETF <mmox@ietf.org> > Message-ID: > <E93EA1BB97D0984691DEC3DFEDBCCE4E07F32165@eusrcmw721.eamcs.ericsson.se> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi Jon, > > I was at the BOF on Tues. You probably don't know me but I worked in > IETF for around 10 years, recently I haven't been attending IETF but I'd > like to offer my opinion on your email and the prospect of any work on a > virtual worlds interoperability standard succeeding in IETF. I also have > had some experience with virtual worlds, I did some work with Second > Life shortly after the client went OpenSource, and I'm involved with a > small group in Silicon Valley (FountainBlue) that is trying to organize > events to foster networking among entrepenurs, investors, and > technologists interested in virtual worlds. > > My opinion is that any such effort will take years, and it will by and > large be out of date from a market standpoint by the time it is > completed. In other words, by any reasonable definition of success, it > will fail. Your email below is an initial indication of why. > > Basically your company (OLIVE?)and Second Life/OpenSIM are competitors. > There are many others out there that compete with Second Life/OpenSIM. > In situations like that, where there is one company or group of > companies that want a standard and no basic agreement with other > competitors for the need of interoperability to their business, > standardization efforts in IETF invariably drag on, since the IETF rules > that everybody gets their say allow competitors whose technology is not > up for standardiztion to disrupt the proceedings. This is not a question > of morality or anything, it is just good business sense, and everybody > does it. Nobody wants a competitor's technology to get the "Good > Housekeeping Seal of Approval" that a standard confers. > > An example of the exact opposite - where competitors have collaborated > to achieve a successful standard - is MPLS, which was described last > night at the technical plenary. But MPLS was addressing an industry that > already had maybe 20 years of technical/business development, where the > business roles of service providers, vendors, and customers were more > clearly defined. Virtual worlds are considerably less mature (even given > the abortive work in the early/mid 90's on dedicated VR systems). So the > competitive posturing among VW companies is naturally more intense. > > My opinion on what you guys should do is the following: > > 1) The SL/OpenSIM/IBM people ought to go off and form an industry > consortium and recruit some experienced protocol and distributed systems > engineers to help them design OGP. IBM certainly has many such folks > working for with experience in IETF, protocol engineering, and > distributed systems design. Once they have their interoperability > protocol done, they can publish it as an "informational RFC" if they > want, this is something any individual or group can do and it does not > constitute an "Internet Standard". > 2) You and anyone else in the OLIVE(?) community should get together and > work on the kind of interoperability protocol that addresses the system > architecture and business ecosystem that you want to develop. You, too, > can publish your work as an informational RFC. > <This will allow both you and the SL/OpenSIM folks to focus on > interesting technical issues and the particulars of your individual > systems, rather than fighting each other on IETF mailing lists and > generating carbon emissions flying to meetings that don't really decide > anything> > 3) By the time these parallel tracks are complete, it will be 3-5 years > on (instead of 7-9, if that, which an IETF standardization effort would > take) and the technology and business of virtual worlds will be much > further along. At that time, there might be more clarity whether a > commonality of business interests exists between multiple groups of > virtual worlds which would allow them to supress their competitive > postures and collaborate on a Internet-wide standard. > > Finally, putting on my volunteer hat, my feeling is that there are some > serious, unresolved technical challenges involved in making VW a > mass-market product. My feeling is that interoperability between VWs is > only peripherally important. Having some kind of tacit agreement within > the VW technical community about what those issues are, having academics > working on research solutions, and having companies, too, implementing > and deploying competing solutions which could prove themselves in the > marketplace would be much more productive than fighting about an > interoperability standard. > > jak > > PS: FountainBlue is sponsoring a virtual worlds event in Sept. at which > companies can come and put up tables with information about what they > are doing. If anyone is interested in participating, please send me > email off-list.
- [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered harmful Morgaine
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Lisa Dusseault
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Lawson English
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Jon Watte
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Hurliman, John
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Mystical Demina
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Charles Krinke
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Christian Scholz
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Jon Watte
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Morgaine
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Jon Watte
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Morgaine
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Morgaine
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Charles Krinke
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Jon Watte
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Jon Watte
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… James Kempf
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Morgaine
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Charles Krinke
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… zedmaster
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Morgaine
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Charles Krinke
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Morgaine
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Charles Krinke
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Morgaine
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Jon Watte
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Jon Watte
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Charles Krinke
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Jon Watte
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Morgaine
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Morgaine
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Charles Krinke
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Jon Watte
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Morgaine
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Kajikawa Jeremy
- [mmox] charter scope, thinking horizontally Larry Masinter
- Re: [mmox] charter scope, thinking horizontally Charles Krinke
- Re: [mmox] charter scope, thinking horizontally Morgaine
- Re: [mmox] charter scope, thinking horizontally Charles Krinke
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Jon Watte
- Re: [mmox] charter scope, thinking horizontally Jon Watte
- Re: [mmox] charter scope, thinking horizontally Larry Masinter
- Re: [mmox] charter scope, thinking horizontally Charles Krinke
- Re: [mmox] charter scope, thinking horizontally Jon Watte
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Morgaine
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Jon Watte
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… James Stallings II
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Jon Watte
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Kari Lippert
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Morgaine
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Jon Watte
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Lisa Dusseault
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Jon Watte
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Dan Olivares
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Charles Krinke
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Larry Masinter
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Morgaine
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Mystical Demina
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Morgaine
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Jon Watte
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Jon Watte
- Re: [mmox] Creating walled gardens considered har… Christian Scholz