Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work
Michael StJohns <mstjohns@comcast.net> Thu, 01 August 2019 20:16 UTC
Return-Path: <mstjohns@comcast.net>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D48F1201DC for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2019 13:16:12 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.699
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=comcast.net
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I_Z-DmXE6WH2 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 1 Aug 2019 13:16:10 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from resqmta-ch2-01v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-01v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 87B681201B4 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 1 Aug 2019 13:16:10 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from resomta-ch2-05v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.101]) by resqmta-ch2-01v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id tDqOhZtPhJ4butHUfhx7W4; Thu, 01 Aug 2019 20:16:09 +0000
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=20190202a; t=1564690569; bh=OQIGiqDJBaNeW7Gg7owlLegJfNbDJQ0oBA2pFwZAV4Y=; h=Received:Received:Subject:To:From:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=QobgLEHjpG3kD5v4+Q7dBtMaZijljJdWjMCHMHqoj8U3KCGF5C9gn0UzsNRK+zXtq GZG6CfRZdI91ZW985j0Vgxrd2/SEQKZ2Kk0e/3e4Y8snOpmOj4xCFJ9G6++0PHMNQK OXbOCTgv3q9fUz/YbdcyNYvLKEB2Nuk7e1Pr4682mUncn2UJNrtsXKjrCejkpfr4z7 UUHV0mV5Lx50azrCiuNUA+FF3X3QH8pNP5vBZd2kxgmqyDkC4v0UO7VKhu0S6IMKt0 C1Y23Zzd2yKPmk/qFHZSu2kM9WdFQ1tombj/HllPI97evOWU8m68WprYT3DfJ1PECP bnk7G7ktrV1hw==
Received: from [IPv6:2601:152:4400:437c:ed2c:5f0:378:1bbd] ([IPv6:2601:152:4400:437c:ed2c:5f0:378:1bbd]) by resomta-ch2-05v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPSA id tHUehjiDB73WttHUfhURLb; Thu, 01 Aug 2019 20:16:09 +0000
X-Xfinity-VMeta: sc=-100;st=legit
Subject: Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work
To: Alissa Cooper <alissa@cooperw.in>
Cc: ietf@ietf.org
References: <9817BB4B-D828-4128-A70C-A8B966E6642F@encrypted.net> <CAL02cgRcGF80R_h5it_u7eGQrMjavpZ6_noEKb5vY5i1HqJYaA@mail.gmail.com> <7e82f47a-6a1d-8d3e-b183-e5159a071481@gmail.com> <9f7e969e-0374-2f9f-4ec6-e2d85a2fb819@gmail.com> <B027130E-8357-44C7-AAAF-FA11C249FD92@isi.edu> <F6C97564-6DD6-47A2-A9E6-5401F50BE4D5@cable.comcast.com> <ce36b799-80e3-7eaa-576b-c7137793f115@cs.tcd.ie> <21882.1564430860@localhost> <8ce5bf75-7040-4b6c-32fc-0042cc6dbfc2@comcast.net> <848781BF-6AF6-4DB2-A845-6A6449B36FBF@cooperw.in> <92dd887b-7c32-134d-4f12-ad8ff75da791@comcast.net> <C5DB2EEF-E075-47CA-87D5-699B594C2D9B@cooperw.in>
From: Michael StJohns <mstjohns@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <b33673ed-5a17-4552-a395-1244c85c969f@comcast.net>
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2019 16:16:07 -0400
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <C5DB2EEF-E075-47CA-87D5-699B594C2D9B@cooperw.in>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/3lfWm1CIc8wUwD0jfHGUmRyKDXQ>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2019 20:16:12 -0000
Hi Alissa - Pruned - other comments in line. On 7/31/2019 2:34 PM, Alissa Cooper wrote: > >>>> You could make it the LLC under an "employee with a contract model" and assign them to the LLC to manage, but there would still be a lot of things to work out. Then there's "advancement" or the lack thereof. For Ray, we punted - he was really a contracted for employee by the IAOC of a larger company (ISOC) as far as I can tell. >>> Ray was an ISOC employee. >> *sigh* Either I need to take writing lessons or others need to read more closely. I'm not sure what the correct answer is. >> >> Yes, Ray was an ISOC employee and as an employee was a contracted for resource of the IETF. That contract might have been implicit or explicit, in kind or with a dollar value attached, but it was a contract between the IETF and the ISOC for Ray's services. Maybe "contracted for employee, by the IAOC, of a larger company (ISOC)" would have been clearer? > Since the thread had turned in the direction of discussing the details of specific employment relationships, it seems like the subtleties here matter. Since the IETF was organized as an activity of ISOC while Ray was IAD, there was no written contract to speak of between the IETF or the IAOC and ISOC that I’m aware of (though happy to be corrected if I’m wrong). The understanding of the IAD role was documented in RFC 4071. I wasn’t thinking of RFC 4071 as an “implicit contract” when I read your mail, but perhaps that is one way of thinking about it. Given that Ray had no responsibilities (AFAIK) for ISOC duties, and that ISOC hired him on our behalf and that (from 4071): "Although the IAD is an ISOC employee, he or she works under the direction of the IAOC. A committee of the IAOC is responsible for hiring and firing the IAD, for reviewing the IAD's performance, and for setting the compensation of the IAD.", it's reasonable to cast the relationship between the IAD and the IETF as a contract relationship of a flavor. Even though 4071 said the above, it was all with the consent of the ISOC who was Ray's employer, and an attempt to do something in this vein that was against the ISOC HR policies would have been problematic even if "authorized" by 4071. Even an attempt to fire Ray might have been met with some really interesting conversations between the ISOC and the IETF and perhaps lawyers. You now have me curious - was there a separate agreement or MOA between the IAOC and ISOC covering the employment of the IAD where the ISOC agreed to the above? > > By contrast, Portia was not an employee of ISOC. She was a contractor to ISOC before the IETF LLC was created, and is now a contractor to the IETF LLC, under your definition of “contractor/consultant.” Given that Portia is acting or interim (I don't actually remember which at this point), I don't know that her contractor status matters all that much or means anything for the future RSE or even for the future IAD. What's a lot more interesting is what you (singular and I*) see as the target relationship for the to-be-hired permanent IAD - contract with LLC, employee of the LLC, contract with the IAD's employing organization, something else? Later, Mike > > Best, > Alissa > > >> Later, Mike >> >>
- RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Sarah B
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Salz, Rich
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Sarah Banks
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Sarah Banks
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Leif Johansson
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Richard Barnes
- Re: [Rsoc] RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of W… Adam Roach
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Salz, Rich
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Sarah Banks
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work heather flanagan
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Paul Hoffman
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Keith Moore
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Leif Johansson
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Keith Moore
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Richard Barnes
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Leif Johansson
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Keith Moore
- Re: [Rsoc] RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of W… Michael StJohns
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Nico Williams
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work S Moonesamy
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Brian E Carpenter
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work John Levine
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Nico Williams
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Nevil Brownlee
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work John C Klensin
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Michael StJohns
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work John C Klensin
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Brian E Carpenter
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work John C Klensin
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Leif Johansson
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Richard Barnes
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Bob Hinden
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Keith Moore
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Brian E Carpenter
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Brian E Carpenter
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work John C Klensin
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Salz, Rich
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Keith Moore
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work John C Klensin
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Brian E Carpenter
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Michael Richardson
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work S Moonesamy
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Jari Arkko
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Rsoc] RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of W… Sarah Banks
- Re: [Rsoc] RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of W… S Moonesamy
- Re: [Rsoc] RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of W… Sarah Banks
- Re: [Rsoc] RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of W… S Moonesamy
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work John Wroclawski
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Bob Hinden
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Leif Johansson
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Richard Barnes
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Leif Johansson
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Richard Barnes
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Brian E Carpenter
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Richard Barnes
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Livingood, Jason
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Stephen Farrell
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Brian E Carpenter
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Brian E Carpenter
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Ole Jacobsen
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Livingood, Jason
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Michael StJohns
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Keith Moore
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Wes Hardaker
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Joel M. Halpern
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Michael Richardson
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Michael Richardson
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Stephen Farrell
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Michael StJohns
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Alissa Cooper
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Michael StJohns
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Alissa Cooper
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Michael StJohns
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Randy Bush
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Michael StJohns
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Benjamin Kaduk
- Supervision under previous admin relationships (w… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Michael StJohns
- Re: Supervision under previous admin relationship… Michael StJohns
- Re: Supervision under previous admin relationship… Stephen Farrell
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Supervision under previous admin relationship… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Alissa Cooper
- Re: Supervision under previous admin relationship… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: Supervision under previous admin relationship… John C Klensin
- Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work Benjamin Kaduk