IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Sat, 27 July 2019 20:56 UTC

Return-Path: <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04B21120075 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 27 Jul 2019 13:56:55 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.999
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bJImdwMD6bRA for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 27 Jul 2019 13:56:52 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-io1-xd2c.google.com (mail-io1-xd2c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B10E11200B4 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sat, 27 Jul 2019 13:56:52 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-io1-xd2c.google.com with SMTP id q22so2233508iog.4 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sat, 27 Jul 2019 13:56:52 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=XuJaG/ow3rYIskxcaxuvIa0/lMTAN+H7SsHwXmJlPV8=; b=IEk4gWqREkOK90neJH8f7n8LeDX/vpzByNOBKCot5tfj4TPETrA9lxDW1D7UrQDR+x xyGDzvd/MwbOzjNaToivOnR6sXzFjmr7lfNOUCx6kL1Y3ZUDDhBpy5dxXokmdCi3tjPP IgCgrJh+JWbs/ecLqe/bnohOx4L1vT8I/WreTQUsM9jBWWah0sbzf/vZUvAfqU7y/Px1 jTxUOq5HCPMoPHSSOs9CZnKvec77m1eOvuAgotiqSNF68SygkO+1G/C+KMkT11ysfRSI 8HLlUQtugs0O3wUOX4r+ABYL+p+IV9ODptjtYnpq1ISsssfPw/7i4LprncUChOEBWBHM jgNw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=XuJaG/ow3rYIskxcaxuvIa0/lMTAN+H7SsHwXmJlPV8=; b=n6zYSbzZkGQSaUdFuQO0kF3SZiLjcsUqxIWgvO7VhqfzHE+p3Q9IkE/fnkqypBzxu6 nbScjfcFfwhttI1TnAr897GQyAGymZNrq8IMJBv62/5oEWET39VATe3C4jvCavBghvFl 6WIH8H8xuzwMvStcdbyDVziyUAxVW9G+zIlq/+yHdN6Dy1DebZJ2D31GOcrv7TAWoYZl AkW0tl6Bt6Cuthq2DGuZb8OaGNtdttBqkJPT/jKhx1yWgYzEUcHowItBQaEr3qEJExFz Sg96uDUkGipAfSaqi13REmsuH0RqGIrQqTP3YE03mo6Xk3vqjgt0COu9Wsv7agE/GIOV d0zw==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV0tTCkLuVdTJoglfuQqjuUGMVS7TxkUFNqyHCmodihI0auJFqr kkxAwI+38pi9iYDVV3kvD5ardprE
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy30HZI8hjS//8xxMhMdzB084pFZpzP87dZZBl35idT+LZjsRMfVgMzUavAZozGDsFscwvpDQ==
X-Received: by 2002:a6b:f80e:: with SMTP id o14mr24555573ioh.1.1564261011821; Sat, 27 Jul 2019 13:56:51 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [10.255.242.196] ([207.164.22.35]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v3sm43539558iom.53.2019.07.27.13.56.50 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 27 Jul 2019 13:56:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work
To: Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx>
Cc: IETF discussion list <ietf@ietf.org>
References: <9817BB4B-D828-4128-A70C-A8B966E6642F@encrypted.net> <CAL02cgRcGF80R_h5it_u7eGQrMjavpZ6_noEKb5vY5i1HqJYaA@mail.gmail.com> <7e82f47a-6a1d-8d3e-b183-e5159a071481@gmail.com> <9f7e969e-0374-2f9f-4ec6-e2d85a2fb819@gmail.com> <B027130E-8357-44C7-AAAF-FA11C249FD92@isi.edu> <90BEE571-76F4-4294-8DFE-CD89BCAF0529@gmail.com> <341ed6e9-043d-91a5-d1b6-ef36b1f9cc63@mnt.se> <CAL02cgThuOxUKeDSz-a9eo9+KBj1_OAk8W=_x=qUSMrKXSyvrw@mail.gmail.com> <1789645f-f6c3-0154-92e5-8618c9ec484b@mnt.se> <CAL02cgRga=f=vMSdLcCQAdth8562SgBZ-yD8Rsskn0N_e5byOg@mail.gmail.com> <11e51a97-5d18-3fc7-0bff-318bba79093c@gmail.com> <CAL02cgRZDjnvURQDBKgBn99tWHAumjSC7w8_LPGr26yYkPyreA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <16b88142-3142-1316-f0b2-04b4015f4765@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2019 08:56:51 +1200
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CAL02cgRZDjnvURQDBKgBn99tWHAumjSC7w8_LPGr26yYkPyreA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/l7odKXJWGAHeX9e9olPfMcYtC9g>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2019 20:56:55 -0000

On 28-Jul-19 01:32, Richard Barnes wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 5:54 PM Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com <mailto:brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Richard,
> 
>     > The only way you find the right person without a process is to pick someone you already know.
> 
>     Of course. That's exactly why the procedure for senior appointments starts with a search committee. That's how we got Heather, for example. 
> 
> 
> https://iaoc.ietf.org/documents/RSE-RFP-4August2017.pdf ?

Don't ask me why the RSOC+IAOC chose to do that in 2017. Heather was found by a search committee of the RFSOC in 2011.

   Brian
  
> 
>     It's a completely different process than an RFP for a measurable job of work.
> 
>     Regards
>        Brian
> 
>     On 27-Jul-19 09:34, Richard Barnes wrote:
>     > On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 10:43 Leif Johansson <leifj@mnt.se <mailto:leifj@mnt.se> <mailto:leifj@mnt.se <mailto:leifj@mnt.se>>> wrote:
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >     On 2019-07-26 14:30, Richard Barnes wrote:
>     >     > On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 00:05 Leif Johansson <leifj@mnt.se <mailto:leifj@mnt.se> <mailto:leifj@mnt.se <mailto:leifj@mnt.se>>
>     >     > <mailto:leifj@mnt. <mailto:leifj@mnt.>.se <mailto:leifj@mnt.se <mailto:leifj@mnt.se>>>> wrote:
>     >     >
>     >     >
>     >     >     > I completely agree.  This should be treated as a search, not
>     >     >     writing an RFP and see who applies.
>     >     >
>     >     >     Thats absolutely right - people & community over process!
>     >     >
>     >     >
>     >     > This seems ironic, given how focused this thread has been on process. 
>     >     > The process (RFP vs search) doesn’t matter — either way we need to get
>     >     > the best person for the role. 
>     >     >
>     >     > To put it in contrast to Klensin’s comment at the plenary — just because
>     >     > someone is engaged as a contractor doesn’t make them a bag of nails.
>     >
>     >     Richard,
>     >
>     >     That is not what "people over process" means.
>     >
>     >     What I mean is this: you find the right person for the job and then you
>     >     figure out how to get them into the position to do the job.
>     >
>     >     Maybe I should have said "people before process".
>     >
>     >             Cheers Leif
>     >
>     >
>     > You say this as if the right person just appears out of thin air.  There’s always a process to find the right person, whether that’s posting a job description and collecting CVs or posting an RFP and collecting RFP responses.
>     >
>     > The only way you find the right person without a process is to pick someone you already know.  It would be irresponsible of this community to limit ourselves in that way.
>     >
>     > —Richard
>     >
>     >
>

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email