Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Mon, 22 July 2019 14:34 UTC

Return-Path: <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F6CD120317 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 07:34:32 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.999
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PM4nc_R7ofwj for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 07:34:31 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-qt1-x82b.google.com (mail-qt1-x82b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 08C33120315 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 07:34:31 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-qt1-x82b.google.com with SMTP id x22so33809735qtp.12 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 07:34:30 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=MiDKNqDIISk7+Keg6M7MXL64ruMVnXj3lUF+cQsd51I=; b=TO2jdUaf52YstapoleU1iWehgDNLxTw17DX7F9bSo4keYYhXnTQF2y7of0meVbnuxS PdJFNIAhhbPZwYIGWvRXlQuJGOy6K2eYNx6Ym7mXvFByHolX9NPkEdYbHxF9k3qkh0LA 219c8mrZn8G6II6VnTqgqjLa6vPDUM88aXrQUzsJFhCw7PE+CQXd4xF8FsTYERuhI1IX Sx4Az/PhwsAMG5l+wCDbZQ37nQr3PqvytQnfpeXwgD+duL60FjpxQBG/SQ+sv++GmXbt xXCx7n16y5LGqqADHbfFlIcAkOmss22hL3ABlxp+s4jXV1n9gGA4m9tVe39og3/4+3+I ouQw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=MiDKNqDIISk7+Keg6M7MXL64ruMVnXj3lUF+cQsd51I=; b=FApuuYv/s1j7JhM/vcA+ZQL8xq8x+hJFWrKgUkJ1wx3qGZaxNVGP1gmGLlAgHtkBoF bntInD5eJQRpzzwSg6GZVKirauCyUvBBKS7Zk/V7Ya0/I1Ag5jC/fT1iEw8qsyB0xWkK gYgXbOKIQeNU+ItFnU3NG6KcNScwjCHzDKuQK5gJT5AMR50YAyOaOJd4k/fjskUeqlLb NbQPtQMu4sStfxsN0kKx0zZSSKSj7/9XTQWizx3Dt5Wn1SCD5nKUHaw5fkYAQU1vJ9oE WUIVStcOa+9LVUD5FPeUV1UX/t3Rbbs9kynN7wrB0jbo/x4UlUqjDOiyTjgpM6zXEN+s /UzA==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAW29G893JUmPfUJLE8yK3DAbLzM+Ou9xoji/DMXQZ2AFy32EQVh 38Weye6wKVsOypqaROrEjyJD4zwi3oM=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxkFiXT4HCrqPcD0+XP9oyVVITYpvYnWlJHml00kTs/XivyG18yBxLswLFyKHQQxKXlkmyRfg==
X-Received: by 2002:ac8:2b62:: with SMTP id 31mr50448530qtv.140.1563806069879; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 07:34:29 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [31.133.145.144] (dhcp-9190.meeting.ietf.org. [31.133.145.144]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z4sm21905191qtd.60.2019.07.22.07.34.29 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 22 Jul 2019 07:34:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: RFC Series Editor (RSE) Statement of Work
To: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>, ietf@ietf.org
References: <9817BB4B-D828-4128-A70C-A8B966E6642F@encrypted.net> <CAL02cgRcGF80R_h5it_u7eGQrMjavpZ6_noEKb5vY5i1HqJYaA@mail.gmail.com> <7e82f47a-6a1d-8d3e-b183-e5159a071481@gmail.com> <9f7e969e-0374-2f9f-4ec6-e2d85a2fb819@gmail.com> <4c722e76-a98e-b114-5348-0d1d2bb079c9@network-heretics.com>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ea928bc1-4cea-a7d6-67fa-11d9151f8533@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 02:34:28 +1200
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <4c722e76-a98e-b114-5348-0d1d2bb079c9@network-heretics.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/dd7HRETpgl72dNBH12zBF00WUhY>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 14:34:33 -0000

On 23-Jul-19 02:05, Keith Moore wrote:
> On 7/22/19 8:52 AM, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> 
>> The RFC Series Editor has always been treated as a senior colleague, and part of our community leadership; never as a hired hand, because it isn't the sort of job that can easily be measured or priced. Obviously, as a practical matter, the RSE has to be paid for their time and expenses, but it really doesn't matter whether that's as an employee, an individual contractor, or via their existing employer. That's basically a clerical matter, once the right person has been identified.
>>
>> I now think that the notion of a pre-defined statement of work and a competitive bidding process is *completely* inappropriate. What we should do, IMHO, is identify the right person by a search process with a well-informed search committee, and then leave IETF LLC to figure out any necessary employment or contractual details later.
>>
>> Obviously there will be a finite budget limit that the search committee will bear in mind. But we aren't trying to find the cheapest RSE; we're trying to find the best one.
> 
> Either that, or we need to completely rethink the role of RSE.

I think that was already done, in the last round of relevant RFCs. What seems to be happening now is an undiscussed rethink of the role.
 
> IMO, we keep trying to replace Jon Postel, who was a very unique individual who grew into that role at a unique time.

No, I don't think so. Jon wasn't a professional in that particular role; he was a protocol expert from our community who thought carefully about the publishing aspect. So was Bob Braden. That's exactly the model we moved away from a few years ago. We essentially moved to the opposite: a publishing expert who thought carefully about the technical community aspect. 
 
> I certainly agree with Brian (and also John) /if/ we persist in thinking of the RSE as a senior (and wise) colleague who can be trusted to act in the best interests of the Internet and IETF (in that order).    (note that I don't mention governments or corporations or even other standards-making bodies as having legitimate interests here.)  
> 
> But maybe that's not the best idea, maybe such people are extremely scarce by now, and maybe they'll be nonexistent in the future.   And if we can't count on having suitable candidates in the future, then it seems likely that the role should be redefined, less independent, and subject to closer oversight.

Not joking: that sounds like what ITU-T does.
 
> choose carefully!

Indeed.

    Brian