Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria
Dave Crocker <dhc2@dcrocker.net> Thu, 20 October 2005 15:43 UTC
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Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 08:43:33 -0700
From: Dave Crocker <dhc2@dcrocker.net>
Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking
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Subject: Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria
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Brian, >>> What is the evidence that we will not gain that new >>> participation without hurting current participation >>> by primary contributors? > It's very hard to get those data... There is no objective way to > identify 'primary > contributors' other than by assuming the regular attendees are > also contributors. > ... > Which, BTW, means income that we badly need. > ... > We also badly need hosts for financial reasons. Unfortunately, the ultimate and practical meaning, of these kinds of conclusions about venue selection, is that we do not place productivity as a high priority. We have a collection of other priorities that take precedence, for a collection of reasons. This means that the impact of face-to-face meetings, on productivity and quality, is almost entirely a matter of luck. I should note that this is a similar problem with respect to Nomcom member selection: We use highly indirect criteria, because they are easy to administer, but which are certain to have poor correlation with member expertise about IETF management -- although IETF management is what is being chosen -- and then we hope for the best. It is interesting that essentially all public discussion of these sorts of stategic issues and the criteria for pursuing them almost always focuses on what is easy or already established, rather than what will work best for achieving the desired result. In particular, negative implications appear to be entirely ignored, such as the one Eric Rosen just pointed out, about encouraging participation by professional standards goers. For an organization that claims to care about the quality of its work product, this all seems a rather strange approach to its management. I suspect that organizations rarely achieve their primary goals by making strategic and tactical decisions that ignore those goals. d/ p.s. "Primary contributors" could be operationally defined as previous IETF attendees who are authors or chairs of current work. One might always want to factor in mailing list activity levels for some individuals, but that's also an indirect measure. However, all involve objective data that are available. An additional approach is a variation on something that is already done: Currently, some participants are queried for schedule conflicts within the IETF week. That could be extended to "venue conflicts" which would prevent them from attending at all. And the primary point behind my making these suggests is to point out that it is easy to give up on pursuing criteria that are not trivial to enforce, but that that is not always warranted... _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- RE: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Hallam-Baker, Phillip
- RE: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria James M. Polk
- RE: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Ole Jacobsen
- RE: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria +ACI-DENG, HUI -HCHBJ+ACI-
- RE: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Joel Jaeggli
- RE: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria +ACI-DENG, HUI -HCHBJ+ACI-
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Steven M. Bellovin
- RE: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria +ACI-DENG, HUI -HCHBJ+ACI-
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Elwyn Davies
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Jari Arkko
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Jari Arkko
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Elwyn Davies
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Brian E Carpenter
- RE: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria DENG, HUI -HCHBJ
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Tim Chown
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Avri Doria
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Melinda Shore
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Ole Jacobsen
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Marshall Eubanks
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Jari Arkko
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Avri Doria
- RE: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Gray, Eric
- RE: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Ole Jacobsen
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Bill Sommerfeld
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Avri Doria
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Dave Crocker
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Dave Crocker
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Scott W Brim
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Daniel Senie
- RE: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria +ACI-DENG, HUI -HCHBJ+ACI-
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Sam Hartman
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Sam Hartman
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Ole Jacobsen
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Marshall Eubanks
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Brian E Carpenter
- RE: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Hallam-Baker, Phillip
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Joe Abley
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Joe Abley
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Avri Doria
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Avri Doria
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Eliot Lear
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria john.loughney
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Eliot Lear
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Eric Rosen
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Dave Crocker
- RE: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Ed Juskevicius
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Dave Crocker
- RE: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Ed Juskevicius
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Eric Rosen
- RE: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Gray, Eric
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Dave Crocker
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Andrew McGregor
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Dave Crocker
- RE: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Ed Juskevicius
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Dave Crocker
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Jari Arkko
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Jeffrey Hutzelman
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Jeffrey Hutzelman
- RE: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Ed Juskevicius
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria - weath… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria - worki… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria - weath… Frank Ellermann
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria - weath… Adrian Farrel
- Re: Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria John Loughney
- Re: Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria John Loughney
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria - weath… Jari Arkko
- Re: IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria AS Prasad