IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: (DMARC) Why mailing lists are only sort of special

Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> Thu, 17 April 2014 22:20 UTC

Return-Path: <mcr@sandelman.ca>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A78311A0194 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 17 Apr 2014 15:20:53 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.163
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.163 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.272, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_TVD_MIME_NO_HEADERS=0.01] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fkjFtfn90kUq for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 17 Apr 2014 15:20:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3::184]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49FF31A0135 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 17 Apr 2014 15:20:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from sandelman.ca (desk.marajade.sandelman.ca [209.87.252.247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id D916920029; Thu, 17 Apr 2014 18:21:10 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 64E4863ABD; Thu, 17 Apr 2014 18:20:45 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F79D63ABA; Thu, 17 Apr 2014 18:20:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
To: Dave Cridland <dave@cridland.net>
Subject: Re: (DMARC) Why mailing lists are only sort of special
In-Reply-To: <CAKHUCzwZ29TAAjJ3_w+0aaoN-L2o+CGHYaMQ=TOEqYdVn5rQHg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CE39F90A45FF0C49A1EA229FC9899B0507D45766@USCLES544.agna.amgreetings.com> <20140414214949.32126.qmail@joyce.lan> <CE39F90A45FF0C49A1EA229FC9899B0507D460CB@USCLES544.agna.amgreetings.com> <alpine.BSF.2.00.1404142150430.32657@joyce.lan> <CAL0qLwbPMm_i0fqNSGQPv=xZaiNASy=icsRNudaNJ_3PNtX3Og@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.BSF.2.00.1404151832460.38826@joyce.lan> <CAL0qLwZUptJVw85T2FjB2HRGoOvcOUHKiQXeadM0QE9BsFVM9w@mail.gmail.com> <CAKHUCzxpwS+nR9wRGOzU_83f7XabMr0pwB5x-MHrqM-28r80kw@mail.gmail.com> <CAKHUCzzw9mufrTCOBQOkRrZU6wOM21X8Y=FUEKf=qnzS9VESjA@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.BSF.2.00.1404161654430.2065@joyce.lan> <CAKHUCzwZ29TAAjJ3_w+0aaoN-L2o+CGHYaMQ=TOEqYdVn5rQHg@mail.gmail.com>
X-Mailer: MH-E 8.2; nmh 1.3-dev; GNU Emacs 23.4.1
X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m<nPbLgmtKK-5dC@#:k
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 18:20:45 -0400
Message-ID: <10364.1397773245@sandelman.ca>
Sender: mcr@sandelman.ca
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/U-D4m1gtFDe7_cw3zznep2Evzac
Cc: John R Levine <johnl@taugh.com>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 22:20:53 -0000

Dave Cridland <dave@cridland.net> wrote:
    > Right now, my MUA treats this as a message "From John R Levine <johnl@taugh.com
    >> ". This means that any policy on the message origination comes from looking
    > solely at the taugh.com domain. We'll pretend it has a DMARC policy. Herein
    > lies the Yahoo/DMARC issue, because unless your policy essentially stipulates
    > that the IETF is allowed to spoof you, we're stuck.

If, when sending to ietf@ietf.org, taugh.com knew that it was a mailing list,
then it could include, in the message, a signed delegation saying that it was
okay for *this message* for ietf.org to impersonate him.

This is a simple application of cryptographic methods.  Keynote and SPKI
(and I think SASL) define ways to do this.

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
 -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email