Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter
"Robb Topolski" <robb@funchords.com> Mon, 27 October 2008 04:52 UTC
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Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2008 21:52:49 -0700
From: Robb Topolski <robb@funchords.com>
To: Stanislav Shalunov <shalunov@shlang.com>
In-Reply-To: <466D7202-630F-4F59-B0F7-3C0D32CFB49B@shlang.com>
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References: <mailman.3860.1224623104.4981.p2pi@ietf.org> <4A27D05E36DE7E47B96BCF7DD8F3FD7101D352FD26@NASANEXMB04.na.qualcomm.com> <466D7202-630F-4F59-B0F7-3C0D32CFB49B@shlang.com>
Cc: "p2pi@ietf.org" <p2pi@ietf.org>, "tana@ietf.org" <tana@ietf.org>, "Das, Saumitra" <saumitra@qualcomm.com>, "tsv-area@ietf.org" <tsv-area@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter
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For reasons I don't quite understand, my view of this conversation is very fragmented. On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 3:02 PM, Stanislav Shalunov <shalunov@shlang.com>wrote: > The genesis of TANA was at the P2PI workshop. A lot of people there were > concerned about multiple connections used by P2P apps. Some concerns are > meritorious, others require mostly just information -- there, apparently, > exists a belief that P2P apps are designed to open multiple TCP connections > to the same destination to circumvent TCP fairness. (I even have an inkling > of how that one could get started.) > People also said that P2P applications filled up all available bandwidth, with no explanation provided as to how these applications exceed the limits programmatically imposed by the ISP. Before anyone redefines fairness, we need data on the current situation. We need to ensure that redefining fairness isn't simply suppressing a market choice. One ISP is reportedly prioritizing HTTP above most other traffic. If, 15 years ago, someone prioritized Gopher over all other traffic, then probably never would have succeeded it. Please let's not write this problem statement without data confirming the problem and the size of the fairness bias (which probably does exist on paper, but we have no data as to the extent given these applications at ISP-subscriber speeds and P2P latencies). Also, I think the name change is useful since there is not inkling that this >> really is about congestion control. Scavenger Network Congestion Protocols >> sounds good. >> > > White ball noted. That makes three. Incidentally, does anyone *dislike* > this name? > > I worry about the idea of moving congestion management and packet handling instructions up a layer in the network stack. Worry is not fatal, but it fogs up an area of clarity. I also worry that the last two attempts to help transit providers understand their customer's packets handling needs haven't really been seriously trialled by ISPs as far as I know. -- Robb Topolski (robb@funchords.com) Hillsboro, Oregon USA http://www.funchords.com/
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- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Reinaldo Penno
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Stanislav Shalunov
- [p2pi] TANA proposed charter Stanislav Shalunov
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Lars Eggert
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Bruce Davie
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Joe Touch
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Marshall Eubanks
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Joe Touch
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Stanislav Shalunov
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Salman Abdul Baset
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Stanislav Shalunov
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Stanislav Shalunov
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Narayanan, Vidya
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Lars Eggert
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Narayanan, Vidya
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Narayanan, Vidya
- Re: [p2pi] TANA proposed charter Reinaldo Penno
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Narayanan, Vidya
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Narayanan, Vidya
- Re: [p2pi] TANA proposed charter Marshall Eubanks
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Eddy, Wesley M. (GRC-RCN0)[VZ]
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Murari Sridharan
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Ted Faber
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Ted Faber
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Caitlin Bestler
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Ted Faber
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Das, Saumitra
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] [tana] TANA proposed charter Das, Saumitra
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Stanislav Shalunov
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Rolf Winter
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Laird Popkin
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Salvatore Loreto
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Reinaldo Penno
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Rolf Winter
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Reinaldo Penno
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Rolf Winter
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Kurt Tutschku
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter toby.moncaster
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Ingemar Johansson S
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Michael Menth
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Michael Welzl
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Roland Bless
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Roland Bless
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Marshall Eubanks
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Marshall Eubanks
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] TANA proposed charter Stanislav Shalunov
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] TANA proposed charter Laird Popkin
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] TANA proposed charter Enrico Marocco
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Rolf Winter
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] TANA proposed charter toby.moncaster
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter toby.moncaster
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter toby.moncaster
- Re: [p2pi] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Mark Allman
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Bryan Ford
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] TANA proposed charter Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Narayanan, Vidya
- [p2pi] TANA proposed charter -- packet marking qu… John Leslie
- Re: [p2pi] TANA proposed charter -- packet markin… Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [p2pi] TANA proposed charter -- packet markin… John Leslie
- Re: [p2pi] TANA proposed charter -- packet markin… Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [p2pi] TANA proposed charter Livingood, Jason
- Re: [p2pi] TANA proposed charter -- packet markin… Laird Popkin
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] TANA proposed charter -- packet… Woundy, Richard
- Re: [p2pi] TANA proposed charter -- packet markin… Stanislav Shalunov
- Re: [p2pi] TANA proposed charter -- packet markin… Robb Topolski
- Re: [p2pi] TANA proposed charter -- packet markin… Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [p2pi] TANA proposed charter -- packet markin… Bruce Davie
- Re: [p2pi] [tana] [tsv-area] TANA proposed charter Robb Topolski