Re: [rtcweb] Call for Consensus Regarding Selecting Recommended Audio Codecs

[Harald Alvestrand <[e-mail]>]

On 01/11/2013 02:17 PM, [e-mail] wrote:
> Koen Vos wrote:
>> In short: there are IPR issues with the PLC required for using G.722 on the Internet.
> NO, PLC solutions for G.722 with no IPR issues are publicly available in ITU-T Software Tool Library
>
> http://www.itu.int/rec/T-REC-G.191-201003-I
>
> 8. G.722: The ITU-T 64, 56, and 48 kbit/s wideband speech coding algorithm 73
>
> 8.1.3 Functional description of the basic Packet Loss Concealment functionality 80
>
> Stéphane

Not speaking to the suitability of G.722, but on the "are there patents" 
issue:

G.191 (the software tools library) has no IPR statements in the ITU-T 
IPR database:
http://www.itu.int/ipr/IPRSearch.aspx?iprtype=PS

G.722 has 47 such statements against it, the first filed in 1996, the 
last filed in 2012.

Figuring out if any of those patent claims apply to the PLC part, 
whether those claims (if any) also apply to the G.191 implementation, 
and guessing at the reasons why they are filed against G.722 and not 
against G.191, is something I don't want to venture into at all.

I'll leave that to the proponents to sort out.

>
>
>
> De : [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]] De la part de Koen Vos
> Envoyé : jeudi 27 décembre 2012 19:34
> À : Steve Sokol; Cullen Jennings (fluffy)
> Cc : [e-mail]
> Objet : Re: [rtcweb] Call for Consensus Regarding Selecting Recommended Audio Codecs
>
> Steve Sokol wrote:
>> G.722 has no known IPR issues.
> This is inaccurate.
>
> While the basic codec has no such issues, the various Packet Loss Concealment methods that were later added to the standard are patented.  This matters because G.722 uses ADPCM and is unusually sensitive to packet loss.  For instance, without PLC the codec will sometimes generate a full-scale oscillating output after a loss.  Since a traditional PLC doesn't work for this kind of behavior, there was a need to invent a PLC specifically for G.722.
>
> In short: there are IPR issues with the PLC required for using G.722 on the Internet.
>
> koen.
>
> ________________________________________
> From: [e-mail] on behalf of Steve Sokol
> Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 9:05 AM
> To: Cullen Jennings (fluffy)
> Cc: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Call for Consensus Regarding Selecting Recommended Audio Codecs
> Per Cullen's request, here is the very short list of audio codecs that seem to have received some interest and the associated benefit of including them in the standard:
>
> G.722 - The de facto standard for "HD audio", G.722 has the advantage of wide deployment in both hard and soft endpoints. G.722 has no known IPR issues. It consumes a relatively modest 64 Kbps which covers most use cases (though not Edge). Inclusion of G.722 would arguably simplify interoperability with HD-capable legacy endpoints and gateways.
>
> AMR, AMR-WB - The official standards for mobile telephony. Adding support for the AMR codecs would arguably simplify the process of interoperation with mobile endpoints. Licenses would be required as both include patented technology.
>
> None - Several group members have argued that the standard should not include SHOULD or RECOMMENDED codecs for various reasons.
>
> Speaking for myself, I don't see much reason to include any of these. With mandatory encryption, media stream bundling and various other divergences from the way most legacy endpoints operate, I don't see unmediated legacy interoperability as likely to happen -- you will always need something to act as a gateway.  That being the case, why clutter up the standard with "SHOULD" or "RECOMMENDED" directives?
>
> The best thing about WebRTC is that it is (thus far) not an attempt to re-build the PSTN on yet another IP platform. Keep is simple.
>
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