Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document
Ron <ron@debian.org> Fri, 12 December 2014 18:43 UTC
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Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2014 05:13:00 +1030
From: Ron <ron@debian.org>
To: John Leslie <john@jlc.net>
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Cc: rtcweb@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document
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On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 12:34:15PM -0500, John Leslie wrote: > On Sat, 06 Dec 2014, Peter Saint-Andre - &yet <peter@andyet.net> wrote: > > > 2. A trigger that is more general and future-proof. That is: someday > > (perhaps before too much longer on the standardization timescale) we > > will have other alternatives to consider: H.265, VP9, VP10, Daala, and > > who knows what. > > (I'd be amazed if we didn't have at least one of these ready to use > before this document is published as an RFC.) I hope I'll not be mistaken for hacking in to the pedantry game if I say "that depends on how you define 'ready to use'" :) In one sense you'd be correct, but "ready for this spec to use" is a bit more elusive. - If H.264 is the 800 pound gorilla in the room, then H.265 has climbed to the top of the building with Fay Wray. It's troublesome in all the same ways, but orders of magnitude more intensely. And its licencing appears to have already responded to The Cisco Hack, making that a more difficult (or at least much more expensive) "solution" for anyone trying that sort of thing in future. - Both VP9 and H.265 are significantly more computationally expensive than the currently proposed MTI codecs. It seems doubtful that just about any currently available hardware will be able to use them for real-time streaming. - VP10 and Daala are still WIP. Despite holding a BoF in 2012, and there being continued interest, we don't actually have the WG for this established or chartered yet. (and one of the objections to VP8 before "a dumptruck of Nokia IPR" became the excuse du jour was "but it's not a standard!!") - According to the charter of this group, the milestone for delivering this is ... about 2 weeks away ... It obviously won't be the first WG milestone where the whooshing noise was heard by all and enjoyed by some, and I'm not sure what people expect the time before it's delivered really will be now, but I'm kind of doubtful we'll form another WG and complete its work before it does. And other than happy news out of the ISO process for VP8, or something other than coal in our stockings from the H.264 patent holders, that really seems to be the only way we're likely to solve this once and for all now. I think the interesting question is whether or not we do want to say something along those lines as part of a forward-looking rationale, or whether people think it's still just a little too far over the event horizon at this stage. Ron
- [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Stephan Wenger
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Timothy B. Terriberry
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Stephan Wenger
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Stephan Wenger
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Daniel-Constantin Mierla
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Victor Pascual Avila
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Daniel-Constantin Mierla
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Sergio Garcia Murillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Gaelle Martin-Cocher
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Timothy B. Terriberry
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Andrew Allen
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Andrew Allen
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Gaelle Martin-Cocher
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Peter Saint-Andre - &yet
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Ron
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Ron
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Andrew Allen
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Peter Saint-Andre - &yet
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Lorenzo Miniero
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Timothy B. Terriberry
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Ron
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Gaelle Martin-Cocher
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Gaelle Martin-Cocher
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Ted Hardie
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Gaelle Martin-Cocher
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Ted Hardie
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Mohammed Raad
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Ted Hardie
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Ted Hardie
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Ron
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Mohammed Raad
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Andrew Allen
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Peter Saint-Andre - &yet
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Ron
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Andrew Allen
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Andrew Allen
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Ron
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Gaelle Martin-Cocher
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Daniel-Constantin Mierla
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document John Leslie
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Ron
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Iñaki Baz Castillo