Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document
Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com> Thu, 04 December 2014 16:09 UTC
Return-Path: <adam@nostrum.com>
X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 902281A1A15 for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 08:09:25 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.91
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZW4opFljPCEx for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 08:09:09 -0800 (PST)
Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D3991AD450 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Thu, 4 Dec 2014 08:09:09 -0800 (PST)
Received: from Orochi.local (ip-64-134-140-30.public.wayport.net [64.134.140.30]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.9/8.14.7) with ESMTP id sB4G93jA073276 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 4 Dec 2014 10:09:04 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from adam@nostrum.com)
X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host ip-64-134-140-30.public.wayport.net [64.134.140.30] claimed to be Orochi.local
Message-ID: <54808719.10402@nostrum.com>
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 08:08:57 -0800
From: Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.3.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Peter Saint-Andre - &yet <peter@andyet.net>, Ron <ron@debian.org>, rtcweb@ietf.org
References: <547511DB.5050100@nostrum.com> <547FC4FD.2050300@andyet.net> <20141204150041.GI10449@hex.shelbyville.oz> <54808198.7030207@andyet.net>
In-Reply-To: <54808198.7030207@andyet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/wkWNFvixDINbpE2CFFMXTd34fjs
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document
X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list <rtcweb.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/>
List-Post: <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2014 16:09:25 -0000
On 12/4/14 07:45, Peter Saint-Andre - &yet wrote: > On 12/4/14, 8:00 AM, Ron wrote: >> >> On Wed, Dec 03, 2014 at 07:20:45PM -0700, Peter Saint-Andre - &yet >> wrote: >>> >>> IMHO we need to either pull out the future-oriented text entirely >>> (which has >>> its own problems) or significantly improve it. I would be happy to >>> propose >>> text for the latter. >> >> I'd definitely be interested in seeing proposals from you to improve >> upon these things. It seemed premature to explore this until we had >> some sense of whether this kind of compromise could fly at all, but >> now that it seems it can, I think these are important details for us >> to clarify as best we can. > > OK, I'll get to work. :-) Awesome, thanks. I've always found your prose to be clearer and easier to read than mine anyway. :) When you draft your text, keep in mind that what we're trying to do is capture the essence of the agreement that we've formed a critical mass around. The less formal (i.e., not really document-ready) version of this is: > "WebRTC devices MUST implement both VP8 and H.264. If compelling > evidence arises that one of the codecs is available for use on a > royalty-free basis, such as all IPR declarations known for the codec > being of (IETF) Royalty-Free or (ISO) type 1, the IETF will change > this normative statement to indicate that only that codec is required. > For absolute, crystal clarity, this provision is only applicable to > WebRTC devices, and not to WebRTC User Agents." There's nuance to be added there, for sure, but I'd encourage you not to color way outside those lines. Expanding scope to discuss issues such as *other* circumstances that may cause revisiting the MTI, for example, are far more likely to weaken consensus than they are to strengthen it. /a
- [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Stephan Wenger
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Timothy B. Terriberry
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Stephan Wenger
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Stephan Wenger
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Daniel-Constantin Mierla
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Victor Pascual Avila
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Daniel-Constantin Mierla
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Sergio Garcia Murillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Gaelle Martin-Cocher
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Timothy B. Terriberry
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Andrew Allen
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Andrew Allen
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Gaelle Martin-Cocher
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Peter Saint-Andre - &yet
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Ron
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Ron
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Andrew Allen
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Peter Saint-Andre - &yet
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Lorenzo Miniero
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… cowwoc
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Timothy B. Terriberry
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Silvia Pfeiffer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Justin Uberti
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Ron
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Gaelle Martin-Cocher
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Gaelle Martin-Cocher
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Ted Hardie
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Gaelle Martin-Cocher
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Ted Hardie
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Mohammed Raad
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Adam Roach
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Ted Hardie
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… David Singer
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Ted Hardie
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Ron
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Mohammed Raad
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Andrew Allen
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Peter Saint-Andre - &yet
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Ron
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Roman Shpount
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Andrew Allen
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Andrew Allen
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Ron
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Gaelle Martin-Cocher
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Martin Thomson
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec documen… Daniel-Constantin Mierla
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document John Leslie
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Ron
- Re: [rtcweb] Finishing up the Video Codec document Iñaki Baz Castillo