RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI)

"Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> Thu, 15 October 2020 17:31 UTC

Return-Path: <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8697D3A0B0A; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 10:31:36 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.097
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=boeing.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x-nIPW3jNWsV; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 10:31:35 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.144.163]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 031843A09BC; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 10:31:34 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id 09FHVUc7015000; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 13:31:33 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=boeing.com; s=boeing-s1912; t=1602783093; bh=VGYlbDjXq23xkj7nbh9fuIY4oXDJQkUOxSfZdppn4bQ=; h=From:To:CC:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=aoNqnuMYqQppXOm6sZL7XnMKm8BYX1/pHjZk4b4G8QjynKgV4nQF7TqpzU1M28c3l St9P2xb53t8ha4aF3lncVgRKDtHmBlqxq07b2xTnrogFYRkKVDsQlRYGbYXwGYgKUq 1rPS9YkgZ3KYETeElKSDmCxmSx+rJA6pHOPFjs28YVFdy3QRoNVxz7laEEsLBMnFf9 a5d+WTxPqOJByE9J9dt4PsvhckVTvbGutlOmbDxnIf6vnhr9Zo1AWhcCxHPMNWDf8e cbk2LBD+7xjfHA8uFUt3O+sxL8s5tidyek0mLmRrawuqMY7FVZQsV2Mg8STYLNcg7h N0+8yL9OFiZkA==
Received: from XCH16-07-09.nos.boeing.com (xch16-07-09.nos.boeing.com [144.115.66.111]) by clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/8.15.2/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTPS id 09FHVINd013826 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 15 Oct 2020 13:31:18 -0400
Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.112) by XCH16-07-09.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.111) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.1.2044.4; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 10:31:17 -0700
Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::1522:f068:5766:53b5]) by XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::1522:f068:5766:53b5%2]) with mapi id 15.01.2044.004; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 10:31:17 -0700
From: "Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
To: "otroan@employees.org" <otroan@employees.org>
CC: Philip Homburg <pch-ipv6-ietf-6@u-1.phicoh.com>, 6man WG <ipv6@ietf.org>, "atn@ietf.org" <atn@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI)
Thread-Topic: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI)
Thread-Index: AdaeYhXTsIxJjBX3TKG3GOD4Nt9lNgECC1GAAAsux4AAHPgmBAAAQ58gAAGd5NwAALTH8AAPJpaAAA6G9ZA=
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 17:31:17 +0000
Message-ID: <21e15b4016e045618628a05c3d53c5f5@boeing.com>
References: <c068f71229404b3693b977ca7cde828f@boeing.com> <739bc23a-c48d-4791-be06-4f972b4699d8@si6networks.com> <5ae440c047db4b51811a00fd5dd15e3a@boeing.com> <m1kSzvJ-0000AXC@stereo.hq.phicoh.net> <d0ba7529d30d4a4bb839b1077d52ee9e@boeing.com> <m1kT6Lw-0000HIC@stereo.hq.phicoh.net> <5dc9abd1d1484682ad8773db76f71d00@boeing.com> <9D28E43D-6418-4CB7-9C44-F67E8D2A222F@employees.org>
In-Reply-To: <9D28E43D-6418-4CB7-9C44-F67E8D2A222F@employees.org>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [137.137.12.6]
x-tm-snts-smtp: 7651E81EB2347FB7A33D9D5AD026DFCD8591B9B918C2DF8E2ED5498D2E4FA6EC2000:8
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/_ZF9RrPioUXklOhOMGqxa8WwPHc>
X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 17:31:37 -0000

Hi Ole,

There are many reasons why I like what we have already, but one that I will point out
is the ease of constructing a routable OMNI site-local address (SLA) from a non-routable
OMNI link-local address (LLA). For an OMNI LLA such as fe80:2001:db8:1:2:: all that is
needed to turn it into an OMNI SLA is to set bit #9 to yield fec0:2001:db8:1:2::. That is
computationally very simple and allows a single-bit translation between LLAs and SLAs
(to get an LLA, clear bit #9 and to get an SLA se bit #9). If instead the LLA had the
embedded prefix in bits 64 thru 127, the translation between SLAs and LLAs would
be much more expensive.

Thanks - Fred

> -----Original Message-----
> From: otroan@employees.org [mailto:otroan@employees.org]
> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2020 10:18 AM
> To: Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
> Cc: Philip Homburg <pch-ipv6-ietf-6@u-1.phicoh.com>om>; 6man WG <ipv6@ietf.org>rg>; atn@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI)
> 
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: atn [mailto:atn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Philip Homburg
> >> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2020 9:44 AM
> >> To: ipv6@ietf.org
> >> Cc: Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>om>; atn@ietf.org
> >> Subject: Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI)
> >>
> >>> Thanks for having a look at OMNI; let me know if there are any questions.
> >>
> >> I'll try to spend more time reading the draft.
> >
> > OK, thanks.
> >
> >>> That is the way we had it in older draft versions, but have more recently
> >>> changed to using all of the bits 10 thru 128. The thing that inspired the
> >>> change was the realization that (not now, but in the not too distant
> >>> future) every air, ground, sea and space vehicle on the planet may
> >>> need to use OMNI - pedestrians, too. And, at some point, we may find
> >>> the /64 limit too restricting.
> >>
> >> As long as we are talking about physical devices, I'm not sure how we
> >> are going to run out of /64s.
> >
> > This is a very important point - it is not just about physical devices but also about
> > the arbitrarily complex virtual networks they may have on-board. In the future,
> > even my cellphone could have a deeply-nested virtual IPv6 network-of-networks
> > requiring subnetting and multi-addressing - its turtles all the way down.
> >
> >> Even if that would happen, there are probably lessons learned for an OMNIv2
> >
> > I'd rather get it right the first time.
> 
> If I were you I would take a look at what it would take to change the solution to use explicit signalling instead of implicit through
> semantic addressing.
> Explicit signalling would not have any of these type of limitations either.
> 
> Cheers,
> Ole=