RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI)
"Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> Sat, 17 October 2020 17:00 UTC
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From: "Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
To: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>
CC: "Manfredi (US), Albert E" <albert.e.manfredi@boeing.com>, IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org>, Ole Trøan <otroan@employees.org>, "atn@ietf.org" <atn@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI)
Thread-Topic: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI)
Thread-Index: AQHWpJ61lTbGp5dyxUO9c4fancNpXqmcdn2A//+LufA=
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2020 17:00:43 +0000
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Hi Bob, > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Hinden [mailto:bob.hinden@gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2020 9:47 AM > To: Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> > Cc: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>; Manfredi (US), Albert E <albert.e.manfredi@boeing.com>; IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org>; Ole > Trøan <otroan@employees.org>; atn@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI) > > Fred, > > > On Oct 17, 2020, at 9:01 AM, Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote: > > > > Bob, it looks like our notes crossed at approximately the same time, but I would say > > the same thing to you that I just said to Bert - we will want all four of LLAs (for the > > control plane), SLAs (for the OAL) and ULAs/GUAs (for end-system addressing). > > I think we are saying you are asking for too much. The ask is to bring SLAs off mothballs and back into service - it would be a good use of an otherwise wasted space. > > About your scale calculations, there will be far more terrestrial vehicles, urban > > air mobility vehicles, drones, pedestrians etc. than there are the number of > > aircraft currently worldwide. But, scale is just one dimension of the problem > > space and the more important dimension is *function*. > > Where is the problem statement for this? https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking/ > This is far beyond what was I understood was called for in the OMNI liaison letter > (https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1676/ ) that we thought the OMNI draft was focused on. The liaison letter talks about aircraft, not > vehicles, drones, pedestrians, etc. > > I read what you are saying is a mobility solution for everything. What we have been designing for the aircraft domain appears to be a good fit for other mobility domains as well, with the above draft as evidence. I believe we can satisfy the aircraft in the near term while still allowing for more general-purpose mobility applicability. Thanks - Fred > Bob > > > > > > Thanks - Fred > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: atn [mailto:atn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bob Hinden > >> Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2020 8:52 AM > >> To: Manfredi (US), Albert E <albert.e.manfredi@boeing.com> > >> Cc: IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org>; Ole Trøan <otroan@employees.org>; Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>; atn@ietf.org > >> Subject: Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI) > >> > >> Bert, > >> > >>> On Oct 16, 2020, at 2:47 PM, Manfredi (US), Albert E <albert.e.manfredi@boeing.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> From: ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Ole Troan > >>> > >>>> I would challenge you to make OMNI entirely free from semantic addresses. That would also help the working group understand > >> what benefits semantic addresses bring to OMNI. And what the tradeoffs would be. > >>> > >>> I think it's a matter of speed and simplicity, no? You avoid that extra protocol, to assign addresses. Same idea as embedding the > MAC > >> into the IPv6 address. But it's true that the IETF likes to stay away from semantic addresses. > >>> > >>> The path of least resistance, from all the back and forth, as of now, seems to be to either use ULAs, or to request a new /10 for > this > >> new purpose. > >> > >> I did some searching, found that there are currently about 500K aircraft of all types (general aviation, commercial, military, etc.). > >> Allocating a /10 seems excessive to me for this even with a lot of growth. > >> > >> Using ULAs would be fine. This might even be a good justification to use the other half of the ULA space as I suspect the ICAO > could > >> be an allocation authority. > >> > >> Bob > >> > >> > >
- Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI) Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 add… Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [atn] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 add… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 add… Fred Baker
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Mark Smith
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Mark Smith
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… 神明達哉
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Bob Hinden
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… otroan
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Fernando Gont
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Fernando Gont
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… otroan
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… 神明達哉
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Philip Homburg
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Philip Homburg
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… otroan
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… otroan
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Bob Hinden
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Bob Hinden
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Bob Hinden
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Bob Hinden
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Bob Hinden
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv… Bob Hinden
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Philip Homburg
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Ted Hardie
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Ole Troan
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Manfredi (US), Albert E
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv… Bob Hinden
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in … Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in … Bob Hinden
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in … Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in … Vasilenko Eduard
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in … Bob Hinden
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Bob Hinden
- RE: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 add… Michael Richardson
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Philip Homburg
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Bob Hinden
- Re: [atn] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 add… Bob Hinden
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Michael Richardson
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Philip Homburg
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Bob Hinden
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Bob Hinden
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv… Bob Hinden
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Bob Hinden
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu