Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired draft on the w.g. status pages [was Re: disappearing IDs on www.ietf.org])

Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com> Sun, 13 September 2020 16:50 UTC

Return-Path: <rjsparks@nostrum.com>
X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 722D93A0A9F for <tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 09:50:58 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -3.027
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.027 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.948, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nostrum.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PRDE3CJs7lsn for <tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 09:50:57 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1F0183A0AA0 for <tools-discuss@ietf.org>; Sun, 13 Sep 2020 09:50:57 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from unescapeable.local ([47.186.30.41]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPSA id 08DGosH0042863 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 13 Sep 2020 11:50:56 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nostrum.com; s=default; t=1600015856; bh=jMsn7NqV8zoJ1WwbXEvERFqconv43pvBkCXSXFrLoLs=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=IggKrnlh2oUvF2okx3UU5YigAeL+pfyirlhrCumPxZsYhDnmRoqBZUlx5IAQYX73B dnLFQVAiPqfTW7Vmsg5DOcD6OhukMaUdJtfkopoQfrPCqZh6UZAzoVB3XEWppA2803 ghzjOx+vvtPtRNM03v77Kk2JxqOsg+VuBuPXep6o=
X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host [47.186.30.41] claimed to be unescapeable.local
To: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org
References: <8657.1599751932@localhost> <84c8d593-c7b6-4327-338f-9b2b0e7a36e0@levkowetz.com> <0C6D4DE2-F9F3-4C7C-8427-264F34C8C2B7@tzi.org> <26d795d2-3761-2950-4346-62f849d86eed@nostrum.com> <7792.1599768579@localhost> <C73D6AB9-694E-458E-AEEE-45DBDEF623C5@vigilsec.com> <3B281EED-CDCE-4025-8C78-7BA689490936@tzi.org> <5B0C691F-EA59-44E9-959F-52445CA58314@gmail.com> <41EEFFCD-DEB9-4950-95B1-F43ACC73CAF1@vigilsec.com> <2F82E43A-39CF-4C99-BE9E-CD84D2BE21B3@gmail.com> <C44C644D-C24A-4839-BB61-F758AA2D7BF1@vigilsec.com> <BCB7C223-EFDE-46D3-A4E2-82068C688547@tzi.org> <16c77153-dd60-c241-1666-b3a9ab9d4e62@nostrum.com> <c2955e75-8b82-c783-492d-1a1d31127bf4@gmx.de> <2a1fce42-8fe3-6399-efca-d878441a8d04@nostrum.com> <7BED91D6-BB07-4EE5-8C29-4C072A0BFD94@tzi.org> <604b7ef3-966c-13f7-6698-69395c13ffb5@nostrum.com> <A21AAB10-7251-4340-A290-AA6FEAAAD3D7@tzi.org>
From: Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com>
Message-ID: <53441bbf-ec7c-1c51-3f8d-3f8ce1c282da@nostrum.com>
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 11:50:53 -0500
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.12.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <A21AAB10-7251-4340-A290-AA6FEAAAD3D7@tzi.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/72w5lxNDUdK91EYWEtEaiLsua9Q>
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired draft on the w.g. status pages [was Re: disappearing IDs on www.ietf.org])
X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion <tools-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tools-discuss>, <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tools-discuss/>
List-Post: <mailto:tools-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss>, <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 16:50:59 -0000

On 9/13/20 11:46 AM, Carsten Bormann wrote:
> On 2020-09-13, at 18:33, Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com> wrote:
>> For clarity - why isn't that the datatracker page for the draft?
> Well, contrast
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-cbor-7049bis/
>
> with
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-cbor-7049bis

How about https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-cbor-7049bis-14?

(Which is what Henrik was evolving from the tools htmlization, but the 
header information could also appear over a v3 rendering).

>
> The latter *is* the draft, with some status information (albeit somewhat cryptic for the uninitiated) prepended.
> The datatracker page is a bit like a bugzilla page — tons of information, tons of affordance alternatives, little guidance (and two pages of the draft at the end even if drafts no longer really are meant to have pages).
>
> Nobody who is confronted for the first time with the bugzillaish datatracker page will know what to click.  This is not a useful page to have in the references section of a paper, or to reference from a blog article.
>
> Grüße, Carsten
>